Arelith

I do not understand the ire nor the panic here.
The game could be soon rendred unplayeble by new updates of WIn/cards and drivers.

I do not care who gets part of these money. IF Liarith, and why not? If worked onto it? You are free to to choose not to pay/buy. Noone is forcing you. You can still play basic NWN. Will you be able to play on Arelith? No. But it is your free choice too. You do not own server, so you can hardly dictate to owner what kind of game to run onto.

Leaving aside that 20 dollars can be a problém mostly only for those living in East Europe or in another less developer area with low salaries.

Edit: And if you choose to not buy EE, then fine. But i cannot see why you should toss threaths here you are not going to buy it, that is your choice and threathening Team with it is ridiculous.

The response here has been interesting compared to some of the other PW's.

Amia appears mostly indifferent, Sinfar's players not unlike Corey view this as paying for a game we already own. Only here where one of the Devs has admitted earlier in this thread money has exchanged hands have we seen more than a positive vibe, but an active plug for Beamdog products.

I'm not as skeptical, but I'm wary of "ownership" so to speak ending up in the hands of a company that, as highlighted by corey again don't show any understanding of the game itself.

I mean, nerfing assassins?



I'm glad it's getting a reboot and that it will be more compatible with new hardware. I'm rather more wary of the format this reboot takes and how far changes go.

Change can be good, but NWN2 brought many changes too, the vast majority of them so bad the playerbase stuck with the even then aged edition. I hope Beamdog knows what it's doing.

Assassin can be powerful.. it just isn't on Arelith. (kinda a joke here since all monsters have 99+ fortitude, and random monsters have 99+ spot, and the rp before attack)
on a server i played on i could death attack nearly every boss in the module, while not killing any of the lesser spawn. i killed caster clerics and mages PCs cause roleplay wasn't a requirement before PvP there, all it needed was good timing. it was also a server were you none was in a party so you could more easily catch players out of combat. one team was hostile red while one was friendly, was how you knew your mates. (wasn't a PvP server)

Opustus wrote:I completely agree with CJ and find it very surprising how little criticism Beamdog's EE NWN project has awakened here. I see the offered improvements vastly underwhelming in terms of what we might expect of an enhancement in exchange for 20 dollars of our money.

The new 'features' are completely under-whelming. As I said earlier, NWN is not where Baldur's Gate was; BG1 was so low-resolution it was virtually unplayable, and if I'm not mistaken the EE's gave BG1 many of BG2's features, which is really significant. None of this is present in NWN:EE.

The changes they've made aren't enough to warrant a re-release of the game, as far as I can tell, and this is simply about money.

Edit: This is really about industries rather than innovating, going back and beating a dead horse.

Invader_Nym wrote:The changes they've made aren't enough to warrant a re-release of the game, as far as I can tell, and this is simply about money.

The changes that have been made 101% are worth a re-release. I'm not sure why so many people are ignoring Devs of PWs saying why this is necessary.

Xerah wrote:

Invader_Nym wrote:The changes they've made aren't enough to warrant a re-release of the game, as far as I can tell, and this is simply about money.

The changes that have been made 101% are worth a re-release. I'm not sure why so many people are ignoring Devs of PWs saying why this is necessary.

I don't /want/ any of the new features and never asked for them. They're being forced on me due to the fact that the servers are being moved over to them, which is a bit dubious if you ask me.

I don't think it matters, but I do agree with Invader_Nym. Regardless, I will buy the "enhancement" to keep playing Arelith, not because of the changes it offers.

Opustus wrote:I see the offered improvements vastly underwhelming in terms of what we might expect of an enhancement in exchange for 20 dollars of our money.

Well put, too.

I am sure you want the game to continue to have a population and function on modern machines, though.

Nothing about this is dubious.

I think (some) folk are ignoring the most important parts of what this whole thing means for Arelith in specific:

An easier way for Devs to further develop the module without having to perform virtual contorcionism nor coding vodoo.

That is the one big take away from the whole thing, for me: not fancy graphics or a long spreadsheet of mechanical changes done to the core rules of the game (arelith is so far removed from those by now anyway), but the ability for our devs to further expand the quality and quantity of life the server can have in the future.

If that means paying 20 bucks for all the base work done to allow this? It is next to nothing compared to what I already got out of my investment on nwn/arelith after more than a decade.
Plus, no one has said at any point that beamdog somehow now owns Arelith.



And for those that are quick and eager to start throwing (insulting) accusations and questioning the moral integrity of the devs, all I can advise you to do, is a loose equation in your own heads, accounting for the hundreds of hours (maybe thousands) that the devs have put into maintaining and developing this place so that you can enjoy it. Perhaps you will find, through that ratio, that your seflishness meter should be pointing the other way around.

Xerah wrote:I am sure you want the game to continue to have a population and function on modern machines, though.

Nothing about this is dubious.

Am I the only one skeptical about an increase in population.

NWN was a niche product at the time of sale, at the initial release point visually it was lacking compared to rival games. Today they're expecting the aurora engine graphics and systems to compete against graphics as found in the like of MMO games like Final Fantasy, Elder Scrolls etc.

I'm not saying graphics are the be all and end all, I still enjoy this game too. I just suspect it more likely consumers will gravitate to something with more features than a potato with a new wrapper.

I want them to be correct about a new influx of players, I'm just not expecting much beyond the few GOG retrogamers the online bundle scored and a late thirty somethings exploring five minutes worth of nostalgia.

Invader_Nym wrote:

Xerah wrote:

Invader_Nym wrote:The changes they've made aren't enough to warrant a re-release of the game, as far as I can tell, and this is simply about money.

The changes that have been made 101% are worth a re-release. I'm not sure why so many people are ignoring Devs of PWs saying why this is necessary.

I don't /want/ any of the new features and never asked for them. They're being forced on me due to the fact that the servers are being moved over to them, which is a bit dubious if you ask me.

Here we part.

I WANT to keep my drivers updated. Not to downgrade them every month when graphic card is updated.

I WANT to keep playing NWN and not meet a day when it stops working on PCs cause WIn10 are not anymore compatible.

These two things are enough for me to pay for it.

You do not like it? Do not buy it. Noone FORCES anything on you.

You can keep playing basic NWN. Noone is taking your copy from you.

You are one of the people who complain on some mechanical things. The thing that Devs could script most things now as they loose "hardcoded" statues suddenly do not matter for you as well? Well. Okay.

Again. Do not buy it then?

flower wrote: You do not like it? Do not buy it. Noone FORCES anything on you.

Ermm, he's technically being forced to pay $20 to keep playing something he could play for over a decade with no problems.

I mean, that's what his post was about. It just seems that it went right over your head.

Invader_Nym wrote:

Xerah wrote:

Invader_Nym wrote:The changes they've made aren't enough to warrant a re-release of the game, as far as I can tell, and this is simply about money.

The changes that have been made 101% are worth a re-release. I'm not sure why so many people are ignoring Devs of PWs saying why this is necessary.

I don't /want/ any of the new features and never asked for them. They're being forced on me due to the fact that the servers are being moved over to them, which is a bit dubious if you ask me.

this is odd since I could have sworn I see your log in in the sugesstion forum often. These listed features are not whats important, the ones forthcoming are. The fact that our team was asked to aid in initial beta and production with Liareth being hired beyond that for her mad skills, should make you proud rather than being indifferent.

Everything our team has accomplished in the game without haks is in a sense being honored and being shown to the world. Our Devs rock! and soon everyone will know just how much.

Now stop saying what you dont want, and go through your old posts for those things you had ideas about and bring them to the what you would like forum on Beamdog for them to consider.

And be proud of our team too!!

Umskiptar wrote:

flower wrote: You do not like it? Do not buy it. Noone FORCES anything on you.

Ermm, he's technically being forced to pay $20 to keep playing something he could play for over a decade with no problems.

I mean, that's what his post was about. It just seems that it went right over your head.

not in the least, Nym seems to not have actually read the notes or watched the stream, for if he had, all his complaints would have been answered hours ago and he would be on board.

Invader_Nym wrote:

Xerah wrote:

Invader_Nym wrote:The changes they've made aren't enough to warrant a re-release of the game, as far as I can tell, and this is simply about money.

The changes that have been made 101% are worth a re-release. I'm not sure why so many people are ignoring Devs of PWs saying why this is necessary.

I don't /want/ any of the new features and never asked for them. They're being forced on me due to the fact that the servers are being moved over to them, which is a bit dubious if you ask me.

To this I'll reply, quoting myself

Rivace_Silver wrote: What if this move didn't happen? What we don't know is how things might have played out if this doesn't happen.. would arelith still be a thing in 2 more years? Were some people on their last wick ? Slow burning to an eventual overwhelming exhaustion of the flame they once had for developing arelith? I do not know the truth, I have no insider information, I'm simply planting some seeds of thought because everyone seems to be in a "me me me " mode. And no one is considering why this move was decided years ago when it began (as irongron stated ).

I don't want anyone to feel insulted, but come on guys and open your minds for a second ... not everything that changes has to be negative. The dev team -WAS NOT- sitting around thinking up a way to get arelith players to pay for something ..

In this case the benefits of the upgrade is -not- up front player content.. but more modern dev tools to make the developers running this join easier... sounds like it's something that they have all been wishing for a long time.. there's a reason for that.. have some empathy.

Ebonstar wrote: not in the least, Nym seems to not have actually read the notes or watched the stream, for if he had, all his complaints would have been answered hours ago and he would be on board.

I did, and I don't think it's anything remotely worth a $20. I am thankful to all the devs and their hard work. They are the sole reason I'll buy this new game and continue playing Arelith.

Konni wrote:

Xerah wrote:I am sure you want the game to continue to have a population and function on modern machines, though.

Nothing about this is dubious.

Am I the only one skeptical about an increase in population.

NWN was a niche product at the time of sale, at the initial release point visually it was lacking compared to rival games. Today they're expecting the aurora engine graphics and systems to compete against graphics as found in the like of MMO games like Final Fantasy, Elder Scrolls etc.

I'm not saying graphics are the be all and end all, I still enjoy this game too. I just suspect it more likely consumers will gravitate to something with more features than a potato with a new wrapper.

I want them to be correct about a new influx of players, I'm just not expecting much beyond the few GOG retrogamers the online bundle scored and a late thirty somethings exploring five minutes worth of nostalgia.

not everyone likes mmos and the crap they represent. if eye candy was the norm then the cep would have been the end all server boost since that was filler and candy for the most part.

Konni wrote:

Xerah wrote: I want them to be correct about a new influx of players, I'm just not expecting much beyond the few GOG retrogamers the online bundle scored and a late thirty somethings exploring five minutes worth of nostalgia.

I expect it will be featured on the Microsoft and Mac app stores and Steam so there will be at least a strong initial draw. I don't know if anyone here knows about vanilla World of Warcraft servers but the popularity of those for the past few years has been insane, so much so that Blizzard is opening "classic" servers to fill the demand. There are a lot of people out there willing to delve deep into games that are past their prime graphically if there's some unique magic there that's been lost in recent games.

Though I'm sure a fair amount won't know or care how to RP in character so that will be a bit of a mixed blessing...

Konni wrote: I want them to be correct about a new influx of players, I'm just not expecting much beyond the few GOG retrogamers the online bundle scored and a late thirty somethings exploring five minutes worth of nostalgia.

I can absolutely relate to this, from the start of this process I've said it almost impossible to speculate on what kind of numbers we'll see with the release of EE, we could get fifty more players, we could get five thousand.

I do think that following release this will be a boon for player numbers overall though, not because people will be rushing to play EE (but many might) but because not having to jump through all the hurdles of keys, rebuilds and technical issues (which as someone pointed out only promised to get worse as the game evolves). Arelith already has a lot of players, and we still see a fair amount of new players coming in the door, even without EE, but it does make it a lot easier.

Anyway, part of the reason I have designed the new module the way I have, keeping it to low level adventuring, not designing it as somewhere to be permanently settled by players is due to exactly the concern you raise. I want to give our players something new to go with their purchase of the game, but I think rebuilding the entire server to accommodate the population of a small town would be a serious mistep, at least until we have better to data to judge this on.

Also, even if many new players do come to EE, they'll likely be split not only among the single player game experience, but also many new servers that are bound to appear. I personally find it best that I continue to build Arelith for our existing community, rather than to ditch them in order to ambulance chasing.

That all being said though, I'm still cautiously optimistic.

Umskiptar wrote:

flower wrote: You do not like it? Do not buy it. Noone FORCES anything on you.

Ermm, he's technically being forced to pay $20 to keep playing something he could play for over a decade with no problems.

I mean, that's what his post was about. It just seems that it went right over your head.

You both forget that he plays on free server where he pays nothing to play. Server, which is done and mantained in free time of its owner and team. The Owner and Team decided that to have a future for Arelith, it needs to use NWN EE.

They do not force either of you to buy it, and keep playing. You got free will over choice, if you wish to keep playing (and thus obtain NWN EE), or if to move elsewhere and play basic NWN. The Owner of server decided what is best for the future of this project, and you may/may not agree with this decision.

And i leave aside the fact of hypocrycy sounding here. The complain, you must pay 20 dollars "because in past you could play for free". instead of moaning over how you must pay for game you played for free over decade you should stop, pause and think of it as investment into future of Arelith. And if you are not willing to participate, well noone holds you from leaving...

this is odd since I could have sworn I see your log in in the sugesstion forum often. These listed features are not whats important, the ones forthcoming are. The fact that our team was asked to aid in initial beta and production with Liareth being hired beyond that for her mad skills, should make you proud rather than being indifferent.

Everything our team has accomplished in the game without haks is in a sense being honored and being shown to the world. Our Devs rock! and soon everyone will know just how much.

Now stop saying what you dont want, and go through your old posts for those things you had ideas about and bring them to the what you would like forum on Beamdog for them to consider.

And be proud of our team too!!

My problem in a nutshell is that this enhanced edition has been made mandatory by the nature of persistent worlds, which I think was Beamdog's angle all along.

I think that's why the enhanced edition actually doesn't really boast any new features. Players have said the game looks exactly the same in the screenshots and videos, and I tend to agree. There's no new content, no new game mechanics, just a minor and apparently negligible face-lift.

If it's the case that this new enhanced edition is developer friendly, and that's really the main purpose behind it, then it'd be nice if Beamdog was a little more transparent about it.

Why not ask contributors to CEP if they'll donate some of their graphics to the game? New weapons and armor templates would at least mean I actually got something noticeable out of the purchase. Someone else mentioned an automated content downloader like in NWN2. Why not include that in the enhanced edition? There are actual enhancements that could be included in this release that would truly reward people for buying the game.

I do think the enhanced edition will be a boost to the community, and a positive thing. I'll probably buy the enhanced edition too. Not because I want to, but because I have to. It'd be nice if I was getting more for that 20 dollars.

flower wrote:

Umskiptar wrote:

flower wrote: You do not like it? Do not buy it. Noone FORCES anything on you.

Ermm, he's technically being forced to pay $20 to keep playing something he could play for over a decade with no problems.

The objection isn't that I have to pay 20 bucks, which isn't a lot of money. The objection is that I have to pay it needlessly, and get very little back for it.

Nym, your asking yourself the wrong question, so let me give you the real question...

Did you get 20 hours of enjoyment when you first paid 20.00 for it? If yes, then it was well invested and worth your time.

Will you get 20 more hours of enjoyment by paying 20.00 again? If yes, then well worth the time and money, if no, then dont buy it.

Very simple logic really.

Gods_Kill_People wrote:Nym, your asking yourself the wrong question, so let me give you the real question...

Did you get 20 hours of enjoyment when you first paid 20.00 for it? If yes, then it was well invested and worth your time.

Will you get 20 more hours of enjoyment by paying 20.00 again? If yes, then well worth the time and money, if no, then dont buy it.

Very simple logic really.

Well, why not charge a thousand dollars for it then, using your simple logic? The problem with your logic is it's a little too simple.

because no one would pay 1000.00 for a game other then those who can afford to throw away that kinda money. Also, sometime the simplest logic, is the best logic.