Arelith

I like the change.. what if druids were given a version of raise dead as well?

IIllII wrote:This is a great way to drive the casual players away from dungeon crawling.
"Oh you died from a trap? Guess we'll have to bounce to raise you back in town/wherever the altar is. Screw fun, muh realism".
"Oh your friend(s) died? I'd raise him but.. a scroll costs a kidney."
"Laurik died in Crow's Nest. No DM online. Trip to Cordor will cost ya 10050."
But I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if there's an altar in every dungeon.

there are altars everywhere even in some dungeons. this also will bring back the need for a truly balanced party, rogues to find and fix traps, clerics to heal.

A good couple of updates and everyone who posted that didnt see the followup updates should because it makes some of the posts redundant.

And regard to hurting melee based chars the most, I play a melee char and have no issues raising coin for whatever. Maybe this set of changes will fix the min maxers into making something more rounded.

Tourmaline wrote:I like the change.. what if druids were given a version of raise dead as well?

Wouldn't a druid be against raising the dead?

Not really no, in specific circumstances they would be all for it if it protects the balance....like a murdered Dryad....

You get piety per _kill_ where as wizards get piety whenever they cast, where-ever they are, whatever they're doing. It's always felt fair to me, and I mostly play wizards!

Rwby wrote:You get piety per _kill_ where as wizards get piety whenever they cast, where-ever they are, whatever they're doing. It's always felt fair to me, and I mostly play wizards!

We're playing a game and people are killing hundreds of creatures in dungeons. I don't know if you haven't noticed but killing someone isn't a very big deal in Arelith.

caldura firebourne wrote:

Tourmaline wrote:I like the change.. what if druids were given a version of raise dead as well?

Wouldn't a druid be against raising the dead?

They get the spell Reincarnate in PnP, but it brings the character back to life in a new body (of a random humanoid type).

DarkDreamer wrote:Not really no, in specific circumstances they would be all for it if it protects the balance....like a murdered Dryad....

I don't think dryads can be revived canonically. They also got nothing to do with the balance.

edit: To avoid too much of a derail from possible replies I'll just explain it all in one go,

The dryad's body and soul are interwined, they have no afterlife either, if their body dies, their soul dissipates as well. They also "protect" trees because their lives are also tied to a specific tree (each dryad having their own), if the tree dies, the dryad dies, and vice versa.

Rwby wrote:You get piety per _kill_ where as wizards get piety whenever they cast, where-ever they are, whatever they're doing. It's always felt fair to me, and I mostly play wizards!

Depends on deity.

HEart and home dont.
Many others dont as well.

I just found a proper use for my eilistraeen cleric. Travelling across roads on nights, raising fallen members of different adventuring parties, and visiting dungeons to raise bodies laying all around hah.

She can be a monster (Drow) but when she saves your buddies from death you cant raise a word against her, lol.


Now, a bit seriously. This will make game a bit harder. I have no issue with it, I just watched czech servers of all kinds of games (Ultima, NwN...) setting up things to be more "harder", more adjusted for "role play", or more tied up for cooperation (an argument often repeated on Arelith like get person XXX) - where you needed other person to do stuff. It always backfired onto servers, player count dropping steadily down and down until servers died. So i would suggest careful approach with these things, after all most people play for fun and any time game turns into another full time job or gets overcomplicated people will simple move on.

I am a little sad because it will really decrease the amount of people who are willing to take a res to try and escape while alive instead of simply portaling to revive as the easiest opportunity to just return to status quo.

People give the argument with "There's dozens of altars in dungeons" and i'm like.. okay, so what?
You want immersion through death-risk but then immediately shatter the immersion again?

Hell no is my character gonna pray to some (probably) opposite evil/good deity after slaughtering past its minions to get my companion raised from the dead. Why. Would. I. Do. That? Why would i pray to some random deity that my character would probably despise? To get them back to the living, sure. But is it doe.. is it doe? Or is it so that my fellow players arent mad at me for refusing to break character?

The cool thing about the server toolset altar is they're unconsecrated at every reset, if you play a cleric or take the gift, voilà, no longer dedicated to a random deity

Xanos950 wrote:People give the argument with "There's dozens of altars in dungeons" and i'm like.. okay, so what?
You want immersion through death-risk but then immediately shatter the immersion again?

Hell no is my character gonna pray to some (probably) opposite evil/good deity after slaughtering past its minions to get my companion raised from the dead. Why. Would. I. Do. That? Why would i pray to some random deity that my character would probably despise? To get them back to the living, sure. But is it doe.. is it doe? Or is it so that my fellow players arent mad at me for refusing to break character?

This is a good question and following should be...what of the numerous awsome player made shrines which suddenly loose the least bits of meaning...

There are a few options for player altars:

Tag some areas as no altar raises (mainly dungeons and yes I know it's annoying to define variables for each area like this)
Make a variable on the fixture that deletes after 24 hours that prevents being allowed to be used for raises. That way, someone can't just drop one down as needed. But wait a day and it can be used no problem.

I mean the update is really just going to get "dead weight" left behind for many groups. Those who cant and keep up with the grind will be left to rot by the wayside, just like real DnD.

Ayylmao.

Otherwise, I like the direction of this update and my only real issue is the high cost of raise scrolls. I'm never ever going to pay the price of something that wins fights (time stop) just to revive someone on a grind. It becomes their fun vs. more important expenses that matter to my characters whereas they can just rez for no charge.

susitsu wrote:I mean the update is really just going to get "dead weight" left behind for many groups. Those who cant and keep up with the grind will be left to rot by the wayside, just like real DnD.

Ayylmao.

Otherwise, I like the direction of this update and my only real issue is the high cost of raise scrolls. I'm never ever going to pay the price of something that wins fights (time stop) just to revive someone on a grind. It becomes their fun vs. more important expenses that matter to my characters whereas they can just rez for no charge.

Sssh! ssssh! Or respawning will be given penalty !

I realized that the increased price and rarity of Raise Dead scrolls also now gets in the way of roleplay. Often times at the end of PvP one party with ask the other if they want to be raised. Sometimes as a prisoner, sometimes to converse, accidental deaths in PvP (when you're not trying to kill someone, but just knock them low), etc.

This change actually gets in the way of a previously available avenue of roleplay.

The subdual system doesn't exactly cut it since you cannot subdue with magic, ranged weapons, and most melee weapons. You also suffer mechanical negatives and need to use unoptimal weapons (which doesn't matter for some). If you use hold person to try and talk to someone, it is quite possible that once that hold person wears off they're gonna go straight back to PVPing. It is possible that you will never subdue some builds with high AC because you will just never hit them and have to rely on magic to kill them and raise them for RP after the fact.

I'm not going to say it is aggression, but both players and characters alike want to go down fighting.

There is also a 5% chance they die anyways. If they don't want to do that sort of RP they can choose to die anyways, or with scrolls they can just decline the offer to be raised.

From different topic:

kittenblackfriends wrote:This also stops people from killing people and then raising them to enslave them, as opposed to, you know, subduing them.

I think it is a good thing in this manner, but most pvp parties usually have a cleric back up.

Dean wrote:I realized that the increased price and rarity of Raise Dead scrolls also now gets in the way of roleplay. Often times at the end of PvP one party with ask the other if they want to be raised. Sometimes as a prisoner, sometimes to converse, accidental deaths in PvP (when you're not trying to kill someone, but just knock them low), etc.

This change actually gets in the way of a previously available avenue of roleplay.

The subdual system doesn't exactly cut it since you cannot subdue with magic, ranged weapons, and most melee weapons. You also suffer mechanical negatives and need to use unoptimal weapons (which doesn't matter for some). If you use hold person to try and talk to someone, it is quite possible that once that hold person wears off they're gonna go straight back to PVPing. It is possible that you will never subdue some builds with high AC because you will just never hit them and have to rely on magic to kill them and raise them for RP after the fact.

I'm not going to say it is aggression, but both players and characters alike want to go down fighting.

There is also a 5% chance they die anyways. If they don't want to do that sort of RP they can choose to die anyways, or with scrolls they can just decline the offer to be raised.

I absolutely agree with this sentiment. While we can't force people to abide by certain matters in game, all this change does is still stem the ability for us to interact. No we have to do weird things like ask our god to raise up the Drow we dirted, or whatever.

If we want death to matter it's going to take more than a mechanical change - it's going to take administration, new rules, and expectations. If you want to enforce death & its seriousness, its already done through RPR and RP expectations rules. Not systems, imo.

Update the subdual so people stop cutting each other's heads off to take prisoners, which, if we're being honest, is dumb as hell anyway.

Subdual should gave you been put into place for thematic combat and role-playing finishers, anyway. If I could, I'd rather be given the chance to properly roleplay and finish a fight rather than "lol that wizard's hp literally just disappeared after I opened my flurry on him."

Now everyone will know how to does it feel been an old Kensai if you are the last on your party and you don't have a portal lense.....Ditto if you are a mage

caldura firebourne wrote:The cool thing about the server toolset altar is they're unconsecrated at every reset, if you play a cleric or take the gift, voilà, no longer dedicated to a random deity

the main point is kinda that if your a cleric you wont need to consecrate some random altar in the middle of a obviously hostile area. and if your not a cleric then you will need to basically break character and slap your dead friend on an altar to a god whom you have NO idea who it is like "please sir, can you revive my friend so we can continue to murder all of your followers?"

the rabit hole is just getting deeper.

I mean I really like the altar idea. A lot. That is some clever design. I absolutely think that should remain, and with the update bring a lot of altars fast.

But rather than just stating it's broken, why not consider solutions? It's a cool idea, and so many characters could not care less about "commandeering" an altar to use it for the express purpose of putting warriors back into the field to murder their follows.

Most of my characters would find it hilarious to use someone else' sacrifical altar to make a prayer to their own evil god to corrupt that altar with their divine power as it's use is abused and perverted for revival.

If you can't do it in a dungeon, then I guess you need to walk.