Arelith

Wytchee wrote: @Opustus

Yep, but shadow weave mages can't cast evocation spells.

Crap. I'd definitely opt for Sorcy if I ever made a Shadow mage to avoid the well of sorrow of playing a Wizard and not getting every single spell.

High Primate wrote:

Wytchee wrote:Alright, I think we're arguing for the sake of argument at this point.

I wasn't. I just like the idea of this path and want to see it improved, which requires me to make a case that it should be.

I'll reiterate my second point:

We just have different playstyles, preferences and priorities.

And that's fine! I won't try to get in the way of you advocating for what you feel the path needs or doesn't need. I'll just state that I think it has amazing potential as it is.

It is better to err on the side of being too weak than being broken overpowered.

Yeah, but I think adding spells per day and not just CL for SD levels won't make it overpowered given the trade-off for evo.

okay

discipline is big in competitive play. going up against 'actually good people' (which both Arelith and this thread is severely lacking in) makes it important to have a SCORE of 25 UMD after ranks and charisma+ESF discipline, maxed concentration and spellcraft, with concentration, spellcraft, and discipline on all your gear.

the reason for this is because you have to be prepared for absolutely ~~anything~~

UMD is also far, far more powerful than discipline by leagues upon leagues upon leagues. if a build is going to spring for "one or the other," UMD. UMD. UMD.

generally speaking, any good wizard will either be KD chained by a weapon master without any possibility of escape even if they had shadow shield, premonition, gstoneskin, and concealment on or anybody they fight will be deaded super insanely fast.

never play a wizard without abjuration in the build, kids. one mords to rule them all. one cast of shield to nullify the most popular (And clearly overrated) tactic on Arelith.

the only evo I carry on non-evo mages is bigsby's, because reflex save OP. otherwise, like a good wizard, I'm always prepped for PvP instead of wasting spells and slots on casting IGMS on mobs like wtf why are people talking about this, the "meaningful contribution" of casters in a party is buffs, extended mass haste, summons, and winning PvP

susitsu wrote:okay

discipline is big in competitive play. going up against 'actually good people' (which both Arelith and this thread is severely lacking in) makes it important to have a SCORE of 25 UMD after ranks and charisma+ESF discipline, maxed concentration and spellcraft, with concentration, spellcraft, and discipline on all your gear.

the reason for this is because you have to be prepared for absolutely ~~anything~~

UMD is also far, far more powerful than discipline by leagues upon leagues upon leagues. if a build is going to spring for "one or the other," UMD. UMD. UMD.

generally speaking, any good wizard will either be KD chained by a weapon master without any possibility of escape even if they had shadow shield, premonition, gstoneskin, and concealment on or anybody they fight will be deaded super insanely fast.

never play a wizard without abjuration in the build, kids. one mords to rule them all. one cast of shield to nullify the most popular (And clearly overrated) tactic on Arelith.

the only evo I carry on non-evo mages is bigsby's, because reflex save OP. otherwise, like a good wizard, I'm always prepped for PvP instead of wasting spells and slots on casting IGMS on mobs like wtf why are people talking about this, the "meaningful contribution" of casters in a party is buffs, extended mass haste, summons, and winning PvP

Them's fightin' words, susitsu.

While I'm still gonna play one, I do have to agree with a lot of folks that the class is distinctly weaker than regular wizards. Mith, are you open to perhaps buffing it in one way or the other? Spellslots from SD levels seems like a no-brainer unlikely to break anything. Maybe some custom -commands ala wild mage?

Since this is tied DIRECTLY to Shar, maybe at like level 15-20 you get the -portal command that lets you and ONLY you portal directly into the Tower of Shar, used like the -teleport command, costs 100xp per trip? Just something of a boost.

DarkDreamer wrote:... used like the -teleport command, costs 100xp per trip? Just something of a boost.

-teleport does not cost 100 xp anymore.. its free

Hunter548 wrote:While I'm still gonna play one, I do have to agree with a lot of folks that the class is distinctly weaker than regular wizards. Mith, are you open to perhaps buffing it in one way or the other? Spellslots from SD levels seems like a no-brainer unlikely to break anything. Maybe some custom -commands ala wild mage?

Hm; custom -commands would seem counter to the whole secrecy thing that we were shooting for.

I have absolutely no objection to others in the team adapting the stuff I do, if the team want to make the path better. Due to limited time I probably won't be doing a huge amount more on this, just fixing up the few thematic things mentioned above.

(ignore)

Tetra wrote:I think a fitting "buff" to the class would be, use piety instead of components.

This please.

Tetra wrote:I think a fitting "buff" to the class would be, use piety instead of components.

A good buff to the class would be for the SD and caster sides of the class to support instead of come at the expense of each other. The CL bonus really doesn't do this without adding extra spells per day.

High Primate wrote:

Tetra wrote:I think a fitting "buff" to the class would be, use piety instead of components.

A good buff to the class would be for the SD and caster sides of the class to support instead of come at the expense of each other. The CL bonus really doesn't do this without adding extra spells per day.

I agree. I assumed it was the way it worked. This would allow you to go SD heavy at the expense of epic spells. It also won't be particularly overpowered since giving up Evocation (and its epic spells) is a pretty harsh price. You can't do something silly like taking epic dodge without crippling your DC's and you will need DC's without IGMS.

miesny_jez wrote:

DarkDreamer wrote:... used like the -teleport command, costs 100xp per trip? Just something of a boost.

-teleport does not cost 100 xp anymore.. its free

transmutation is still terrible

at least divination lets you legally metagame

I'd like a Shadowmage to have something like -detect_Shadows

Which allows them to tell if someone casting near them is also using the Shadow Weave.

I mean Harpers get their nifty Harper tokens to tell who all the Harpers are with, Sharrens are pretty much limited to stumbling around and leaving vague messages is in the Tower, that are vague enough that they don't give away their identity to all the tourists who can bypass the front door.

Rwby wrote:that are vague enough that they don't give away their identity to all the tourists who can bypass the front door.

I love that the Tower of Shar is the least safe "guildhouse" on the server.

I am rather curious if with what we know now of shadow mages if anyone's build ideas have changed.
Is the path still being worked on?

DragonRiderCyric wrote:I am rather curious if with what we know now of shadow mages if anyone's build ideas have changed.
Is the path still being worked on?

Most are just going the standard 26-27/4-3 wizard/rogue, or perhaps wizard/bard depending on how much you value discipline.

Shadow Mages get HiPS at wizard level 20. They don't need Shadow Dancer levels anymore.

What about fear selection and spells? I'm curious cause I'm considering making one, but I need to know what to expect in terms of pvp. I already use summons for all my pve

DragonRiderCyric wrote:What about fear selection and spells? I'm curious cause I'm considering making one, but I need to know what to expect in terms of pvp. I already use summons for all my pve

I don't think you should expect to do well in pvp at least one on one. Anyone who knows what they're doing will shrug off fear and similar spells. The biggest advantage the class probably has is some ability to choose your battles.. sneaking away from someone who wants to pvp you or in some cases supporting a group with cast and hide tactics.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Spell_school_ ... er/wizard)

Here's a nifty list for considering your spell list. The best damaging spells are in Evocation, but outside that you can get: Empowered Flame Arrow, Evard's Black Tentacles, Horrid Wilting. Cloudkill and Acid Fog seem useful for PvM at least, and Wall of Fire via Shades sounds like it can do some real dammuge with a 2d6 + CL a tic, averaging at 34 for CL26.