Arelith

DM Sollers wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:52 pm The issue with the Bane Temple situation was that there were, from the portal, 9+ (I want to say 13, but I don't know if they were traveling through the area or with the group) individuals stood outside of the temple to potentially raid/camp to try and dance around the raid rule. Axis stated that the raid party had to leave. A second message was then delivered, again, to vacate. A few more messages later, they had to pause the game and bounce messages to get the party to clear out. It was a mess, a mess that shouldn't have happened, and with some communication it could have been avoided (and maybe even supported).

Thanks, yeah! I think it was about a dozen outside the temple and from where we were playing as the group on the inside Axis' messages did mention the group outside. It was about a 3v4 fight on the inside of the Temple and we assumed that the DM was just trying to tell the outside group to leave so things would be even. I get we shouldn't have made that assumption, but also please don't also assume that as a player I'm out here just to grief people IG.

The raiding rule is new and not well-understood, to the point that it required a clarification from DM Axis in a separate thread about an hour ago. I understand that we have a new "zero tolerance" policy for repeated griefing and all that, but not every misunderstanding of a rule or DM communication comes from a negative place.

-XXX- wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:59 pm I genuinely don't understand... where's all this entitlement coming from?


We've been granted the opportunity to enjoy free content provided by volunteers who invest a great amount of their free time and energy into maintaining said free content.

As far as I'm aware nothing really compels the team to be fair towards the players. The fact that they aspire to act that way should be acknowledged as a courtesy and not be taken for something granted.

Their internal rules and ethics rules which they claim to have compells them.

I have become slightly distrustful of other players and staff since first stepping into UD server + faction-roleplay:
Because... there was a DM event where a truce was declared between factions. But then things happen. During americano hours apparently with non-americano-timezone me always having to run after to piece together what is going on...
Eventually my faction gets booted from Andunor - "cut all ties with x or suffer the same fate" public message included.
Which overnight would cut me off from my entire peer group. Oh, and if I had revealed my character to be a member of faction I guess I'd been exiled and PvPed from Andunor too - cutting my low-lvl off from writ system...

Now that sort of thing is happening down there again and again. UD powerplay is - as far as i know - all about grabbing both districts, thenn exiling rivals. Which cuts the lowlvls of exiled faction off the writ system. And cuts the exiled faction entirely of fromm newly arriving players.
There is only one starting location down there, remember...

Now I understand Andunor/UD is a place of evilness. But Arelith is a PG13. Also bullying is supposedly not allowed.
But in my eyes this practice of cutting ppl's characters off the writ system and starter characters in Andunor (or elsewhere) via mass-exile is social-isolation technqiue of bullying.
If it, however, this sort of thing is valid roleplay - let me know.

Zed wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:02 pm Their internal rules and ethics rules which they claim to have compells them.

I respectfully disagree with your subjective opinion on the matter.

Kreydis wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:56 pm

DM Sollers wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:52 pmHi.

It is a matter of trust and it goes both ways. A doctored (see: context removed) cut of private messages was shared. Privacy was both waived and breached. The undoctored conversation with context was provided. It is as simple as that.

I don't believe you. But that doesn't matter. What really matters is how you again, have posted private player's usernames who have absolutely no bearing in this 'trust breaking'. I again, ask that you remove or censor their discord names.

Hi.

You can disbelieve me. That's your right as a human being. I replied in kind following the waiving of my privacy.

And I missed this:

What constitutes a raid where the players can then be protected by DM's screaming to stop the consequences of IC actions?

Taking from another DM:

A raid is consisting of more than 4 people. Individual PvP does self describe itself as being 1-2 individuals. A raid consists of 4 or more people (but context will always be taken into account.)

Zed wrote:Sollers that thread was completely polite and the only thing that could even be considered contentious is the fact that you perversely posted a private conversation, whereas the signature is literally a condensed version of the same exact conversation that took place.

Not only that, but your attack against penwize in this thread after they have been nothing, NOTHING, but polite indicates that you feel attacked that people have a problem with the server goings on after an entirely polite post about concerns from an upstanding member of your community.

If you are going to attack members of the community do it to people that attack you directly.

Not against members that seek to actually fix the problems that exist in the first place.

Hi.

There was a breach of privacy following which the conversation was provided to set it straight for those who had messaged me angrily over the snippet with the belief that that was the only conversation and that I was, as you put it, attacking them in the first place. When context is disbanded from conversation, humans- being humans- will review the tone provided and build an opinion based off of that, not off of the conversation. With context, those comments have since been rescinded.

Cheers.

-XXX- wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:08 pm

Zed wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:02 pm Their internal rules and ethics rules which they claim to have compells them.

I respectfully disagree with your subjective opinion on the matter.

DM Sollers wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:11 pm

Kreydis wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:56 pm

DM Sollers wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:52 pmHi.

It is a matter of trust and it goes both ways. A doctored (see: context removed) cut of private messages was shared. Privacy was both waived and breached. The undoctored conversation with context was provided. It is as simple as that.

I don't believe you. But that doesn't matter. What really matters is how you again, have posted private player's usernames who have absolutely no bearing in this 'trust breaking'. I again, ask that you remove or censor their discord names.

Hi.

You can disbelieve me. That's your right as a human being. I replied in kind following the waiving of my privacy.

And I missed this:

What constitutes a raid where the players can then be protected by DM's screaming to stop the consequences of IC actions?

Taking from another DM:

A raid is consisting of more than 4 people. Individual PvP does self describe itself as being 1-2 individuals. A raid consists of 4 or more people (but context will always be taken into account.)

Again, the players who didn't breach your trust, should have their discord usernames censored.

As for the raid rulings. 4 people unless the DM team decides otherwise. Got it. So you can be warned or whatever for a 1 man RAID because the dm team decides you're raiding.

Posting private conversations without permission is despicable and two wrongs do not make a right.

Let Love In wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:14 pm Posting private conversations without permission is despicable and two wrongs do not make a right.

But you won't critique penwise for having had it as their signature because like other people in this thread you have an agenda.

Kreydis wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:14 pm As for the raid rulings. 4 people unless the DM team decides otherwise. Got it. So you can be warned or whatever for a 1 man RAID because the dm team decides you're raiding.

This one is really easy. Are you attacking a location with NPCs? Let a DM know.

Let Love In wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:14 pm Posting private conversations without permission is despicable and two wrongs do not make a right.

It ceased to be a private conversation when it was doctored and posted.

Seriously, please prune this thread as you would do if a player had posted that. This is petty and needs cleaning up. The rule to not bring up specific incidents should cut in both directions.

It is wrong on both parts. Two wrongs do not make a right. And yes, we hold the DMs to higher standards than the players.

Let Love In wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:17 pm Seriously, please prune this thread as you would do if a player had posted that. This is petty and needs cleaning up. The rule to not bring up specific incidents should cut in both directions.

If someone posted a private conversation with me that they'd edited I for sure would want to post up the original to provide adequate context to anyone who saw it and correct any misgivings about the private conversation. I don't think correcting misinformation is another wrong in this situation.

Let Love In wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:17 pm It is wrong on both parts. Two wrongs do not make a right. And yes, we hold the DMs to higher standards than the players.

Despite the fact that they too are human beings and players, and will probably be just as hurt by someone misconstruing their words in whatever way by actually doctoring a screenshot.

Let Love In wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:17 pm It is wrong on both parts. Two wrongs do not make a right. And yes, we hold the DMs to higher standards than the players.

There's nothing harmful in it aside from showing the initial poster up. They only have themselves to blame for that.

You might, but the DMs would remove it as it referred to a specific incident. And rightly so.

This thread should be locked and cleaned. This is the very opposite of a constructive post at this point.

Sockss wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:16 pm

Let Love In wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:14 pm Posting private conversations without permission is despicable and two wrongs do not make a right.

It ceased to be a private conversation when it was doctored and posted.

Not only is that a gross interperitation of any decency, but you also grossly misunderstand the situation

Let Love In wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:21 pm This thread should be locked and cleaned. This is the very opposite of a constructive post at this point.

If this thread is locked bevause od solloers behavior I will take it as confirmation that supporters of this type of behavior flame and brigade threads with concerns in them just to get the thread shut down

Let Love In wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:21 pm This thread should be locked and cleaned. This is the very opposite of a constructive post at this point.

You are perpetuating that. The DM was within their rights to post the whole context. No one should be defending Penwise's use of a doctored discord conversation.

Zed wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:22 pm If this thread is locked bevause od solloers behavior I will take it as confirmation that supporters of this type of behavior flame and brigade threads with concerns in them just to get the thread shut down

Practice what you preach.

No, NONE of this belongs on the forums.

Let Love In wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:24 pm No, NONE of this belongs on the forums.

It's there now. Move on. You can't take it down from the public domain once it's out there.

Forum administrators can absolutely lock and remove posts, and hopefully will very soon.

Zed wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:22 pm

Let Love In wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:21 pm This thread should be locked and cleaned. This is the very opposite of a constructive post at this point.

If this thread is locked bevause od solloers behavior I will take it as confirmation that supporters of this type of behavior flame and brigade threads with concerns in them just to get the thread shut down

It's not Sollers running roughshod over the thread posting hyperbole and exaggeration right now.