Arelith

I think there are many good points in the post just above. (Edit : On the prevuous page ! )
In truth, the answer really is quite simple. If you want people to stop running invisible through dungeons, make them interesting.

Maurs are nice. The ennemies change with the areas, getting harder as you push through. It's challenging, but not that hard. There are a couple of cool things long the way (Bigby Hand, Battlestone). The rewards are suitable.

Let's take the bad example now. Aurilites. The dungeon consists in killing the same ennemies, over and over again, for five levels. Ennemies are
1) Not dangerous
2) Slow to kill (DR, Invis)
It's literally the same thing all the way in. And ultimately, you'll open a chest you know has 90% chances of being empty.
Does this encourages you to take half-an-hour to make the whole thing ? Not really. I've even some times pulled three levels of mobs just to kill them all in one fight while doing something else in the meantime.
Put semi-bosses. Put enigmas. Put little magical things. Anything, really. But killing the exact same mobs for half-an-hour is the death of fun.

NB : I think @JackOat mentionned that kind of unfun things in another topic, for me this rejoins the part about not-challenging mobs throwing dispels or having elementary shield, which is just annoying and have no interest.

Hello,

I think it would be possible to script:
In case player (not character) log off in [Dungeon Map]: if Login-Logoff timestamps > Insert minutes then move character to server selection.
+
In case player (not character) login X times in [Dungeon Map] within insert hourly interval make a log/notification on DM channel.

On the ore, wouldn't it be actually feasible to change ore mining a little?
- Random spawns of ore veins across suitable maps if possible.
- Change % chance of mining the ore out depending on race/ranks in craft skills/points in crafting.
- Add Ada/Mith Ingots to the epic loot table.

Cheers

My 2c

Not sure if it is possible but why not have chest always empty until opend.

Script in OnOpen slot that checks for partymembers present in area and spawns loot accordingly.
1 player - Low/Mid tier item or coin
2 player - 1 Low/mid item, 1 mid/high tier item, or coin.
3 or more - 1 low/mid/high tier item or coin per partymember.

All partymember get cooldowntimer so script doesnt fire again for X amount of RL hours once the loot is spawned.


Rewards based on risk/reward.

Invis runner gets cookie for trouble

rogue can still stealth for some goodies, even better in pairs.


Adventure party killing the whole dungeon gets rewarded for the time/effort put in and wont find empty chest at the end.


Just trying to think constructively, everybody gets something, less headaches for DM's then with the penalty log timer babysitting idea, no tears for empty chest after an hour of dungeon crawling. win = win .

My VERY strong inclination is to treat this game in a very heavily RP focused manner. But I dont see how it is realistically feasible to do that while also getting to enjoy the bells and whistles of the game.

Say you have a party of 4. OOC friends who make a point to play together frequently.

Forget runic stuff, lets just talk adamantium.

Im going to get these numbers wrong, so please treat them as estimates.

The party rogue needs 1 ingot for his rapier, 1 for his dagger, 2 for his helm. Thats 4 ingots.

The cleric needs 1 for his weapon, one for his helm, thats 3 ingots.

The fighter needs 1 for his weapon, 2 for his shield, 2 for his helm, 4 (?) For his plate, thats 9.

The wizard needs 1 ingot for... something?

Thats 17 ingots. Assuming no mishaps in smelting, thats 34 chunks.

Assuming 3 chunks per node, and no instances where the party reaches a node which has already been farmed (or is zinc for some reason) l, that means the party will need to run 12 Epic dungeons in order to get the materials for their basic endgame gear.

Assuming they want to properly RP as they go, and assuming the players have normal lives, they will be able to perhaps do 1 epic dungeon each weekend. This means it will take 12 weeks.

So assuming no mishaps in their plan, it will take like 3 IG years to do this.

Or... the characters can buy the materials they need from the shop of a player who solo invis speedruns 10 epic dungeons a day, 3-4 days a week.

Hmmm... something wrong with this picture.

I agree with another poster that said sneaking to the chest should be a viable option, as per the "spirit" of DnD.

I think a lot of the suggestions being thrown around are good ones. But i have a fairly simple one.

Say there was a player with a shop selling 50 Clays, 60 Templates, and a couple 100-stacks of Adamantium ore...

How hard would it be for a DM to just contact that player OOC and say: "Stop"

But you don't know if that person is going through the dungeon with a faction and selling everything for the faction, etc.

Many different people play this game for different reasons.

Also, your numbers are off:

Rogue = 2 weapons, 1 armour, 1 helm
Cleric = 0
Fighter = 1 weapon, 3 shield, 1 helm, 4 armour
Wizard = 0

13 total, but that is over a longer term. You don't everything right away. Plus, you'll get other things and make other money. You don't need to find 26 chunks.

Why is cleric 0? Adamantium helmet it good for clerics, isnt it?

Also, you are right. I do not know if they are selling on behalf of a faction. But presumably the DMs do? Or could find out?

Arienette wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:52 pmSay there was a player with a shop selling 50 Clays, 60 Templates, and a couple 100-stacks of Adamantium ore...

How hard would it be for a DM to just contact that player OOC and say: "Stop"

Why should it matter? If an activity is made available in the game with no lockout timers and no measures to impede farming it on rotation, I do not see why we should then get upset that players, indeed, farm it on rotation. If chest logging is an issue (which it is, and clearly an exploit), then just make it impossible to do. If farming it on rotation is an issue, then introduce a per-player timed loot lock, or instance lock, or whatever you want to do. It just seems crazy to me that we should punish somebody for farming 200 adamantine chunks and selling them. We have made available the possibility to farm 200 adamantine chunks and given players the tools to do it, and now we are punishing them for it? It feels to me like intentionally dropping some food on the floor in front of a hungry dog then kicking the dog when it inevitably eats the food. If behaviour is undesirable, make it impossible to do, but whatever you do, don't make up arbitrary and impromptu rules on how much is too much that isn't enforced mechanically when it should be.

Im not saying people should be punished. Being told to stop a behavior is not a punishment.

I think this attitude of "if it is not explicitly banned or mechanically impossible, it is OK." Is problematic. If you dont make it impossible to do something undesireable, that activity then becomes desireable by default?

Imagine how terrible our daiky lives would be if this attitude was widespread?

Arelith is supposed to be a cooperative place. It has a "be nice" rule. Solo speedrunning dungeons all day is not cooperative or nice.

You dont have to punish Scrooge McDuck for having 50 Ekulian Clays. You can just nicely say "hey, it would be cool if you stopped farming clays until you start to run a bit low on the o es you have? That way other players have a chance to get some. Thanks, have a nice day!"

Arienette wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:54 pm Im not saying people should be punished. Being told to stop a behavior is not a punishment.

I think this attitude of "if it is not explicitly banned or mechanically impossible, it is OK." Is problematic. If you dont make it impossible to do something undesireable, that activity then becomes desireable by default?

Imagine how terrible our daiky lives would be if this attitude was widespread?

Arelith is supposed to be a cooperative place. It has a "be nice" rule. Solo speedrunning dungeons all day is not cooperative or nice.

You dont have to punish Scrooge McDuck for having 50 Ekulian Clays. You can just nicely say "hey, it would be cool if you stopped farming clays until you start to run a bit low on the o es you have? That way other players have a chance to get some. Thanks, have a nice day!"

Your suggestion seems like the right thing to do but as someone mentioned that person could be part of a faction, most of the things in that shop could of been collected by others. Dm's also have enough to do without having to monitor peoples shops and make judgement calls on what's exessive. What one DM might consider excessive another DM might think is fine so do you want DM's to be making those judgement calls? That's not to say if a Dm saw something insane like 500 ingots of adamantine in a shop that they may not watch that player a little closer to figure out what's happening. But I'm pretty sure if a DM did what you suggested there would be some angry post showing up in the forums about over reaching DM's.

Arienette wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:54 pm Im not saying people should be punished. Being told to stop a behavior is not a punishment.

I think this attitude of "if it is not explicitly banned or mechanically impossible, it is OK." Is problematic. If you dont make it impossible to do something undesireable, that activity then becomes desireable by default?

Imagine how terrible our daiky lives would be if this attitude was widespread?

Arelith is supposed to be a cooperative place. It has a "be nice" rule. Solo speedrunning dungeons all day is not cooperative or nice.

You dont have to punish Scrooge McDuck for having 50 Ekulian Clays. You can just nicely say "hey, it would be cool if you stopped farming clays until you start to run a bit low on the o es you have? That way other players have a chance to get some. Thanks, have a nice day!"

I understand and appreciate your perspective, though I disagree with it. We are discussing game mechanics here - not the finer points of being a human being in our day to day lives. Not all principles can be applied to all situations. From the perspective of a game, I strongly believe that if we allow players to do as many dungeons as they want mechanically, with no restrictions, then we should be prepared for some players to take it to the logical extreme, and we shouldn't punish them for it. We should instead introduce mechanical rules to reflect how we want players to play. It saves DM time, it saves player time, and it avoids the player resentment that is introduced when a DM contacts you out of the blue and punishes you for playing the game legitimately. To a player who enjoys farming rare items, being told to stop because they're too good at it is a punishment.

I guess I see your point.

I feel like its a small handful of players that habitually do this, which is why I figured case-by-case DM intervention might he the best solution.

But I could very well be wrong about the number of people who do this.

Not to dig too deeply into this, but I would seriously suggest a. considering if this is really a game unbalancing and truly significant problem and b. the role this areas play in the overall scheme of things from all standpoints - when considering scripting a bunch of loopholes.

Having come from a server where minimum party sizes and level ranges and checkpoints were scripted that curbed the behavior of solo farming I can say it also:

1. Did little to stop ooc friends from banding together and still reaching bare minimums and still getting what they wanted in record times.
2. Created a bunch of other loopholes where people still gamed the system and had to be thumped by a DM
3. Made low server population times when you really had no one your level that was acceptable RP-wise to go do something with unbearable, which meant you logged off which meant even lower server population.

I personally like the no restriction system that's in place in Arelith and while it lends itself to some poor behavior by a few it encourages things like taking a lowbie to visit something new that maybe fits their character background and gives them a future goal, taking your faction who is spread over lvl 10-30 someplace they can have some fun together and something to solo when you're at low server number times or just need a break from the constant talking you people you .

I'm all for DMs dropping beholders right on top of someone exploiting things.

Nikko wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:01 pm Not to dig too deeply into this, but I would seriously suggest a. considering if this is really a game unbalancing and truly significant problem and b. the role this areas play in the overall scheme of things from all standpoints - when considering scripting a bunch of loopholes.

It is a serious problem for the server because runic materials are integral to the server economy on a macro scale. When you have people farming runic materials to the degree that its being done, the law of supply and demand crashes the value of endgame runes, which has a depressing effect on the value of just about everything craftable beneath it, due to demand for all items that would normally be basin-fodder going down. This, in turn, hurts all crafting PCs, which hurts the lowbies they hire to collect materials. As they say, shit flows downhill.

The only people benefitting from the market being flooded are, frankly, the people flooding the market in the first place. Everyone else is getting hosed.

People who got lucky and got a rune material without farming it also see the value of their find is less than it would be if the farmers were not effectively mass producing materials.

Adamantine flooding the market is fine, because it means that demand for adamantine items will go up because the cost will go down, because people can feed addy items to the basin again to make use of that perfect chardalyn stone.

But if a perfect piece of Zardazik is being found every couple days, the adamantine weapon market crashes.

The market already crashed, people just stubbornly refuse to adapt to it. Clay's not worth more than 50-60k, finished templates 80-100k max. T1's are 10-20k, 25k for Zard, 8-10 for blueleaf, T2's are 25-30k, 20k for blueleaf, ??? (but about 100-200k generally) for Zard, and T3's are holding solid around 500-750k for blueleaf, 1m-1.5m for the rest, and ??? for Zard, as usual.

everyone else pricing outside this range isn't moving product, stock is sitting in shops for RL months.

These are the exact prices I would have said as well. I wouldn’t pay any more than that.

Exactly. The economic damage is already being done. Even if runic materials were taken out of the system today it will take months for the economy to stabalize and backed up inventory to sell.

TimeAdept wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:08 pm The market already crashed, people just stubbornly refuse to adapt to it. Clay's not worth more than 50-60k, finished templates 80-100k max. T1's are 10-20k, 25k for Zard, 8-10 for blueleaf, T2's are 25-30k, 20k for blueleaf, ??? (but about 100-200k generally) for Zard, and T3's are holding solid around 500-750k for blueleaf, 1m-1.5m for the rest, and ??? for Zard, as usual.

everyone else pricing outside this range isn't moving product, stock is sitting in shops for RL months.

Honestly did not saw a single T2 at that price on 'Surface' areas, so I suppose that's UD ? On the T1/T3, agreed, on blueleef too. Probably has to do with the gap in the number of dungeons, I suppose. (If that's indeed UD, otherwise I'm just blind with shops I guess XD)

T2 require clay so their value is limited due to that. But no one knows how to price it that way. 200k for a tier 2 mat is really silly.

Honestly, I didn't saw any T2, despite running a lot of dungeons, in quite some times. I find that they are fairly rare with clay drops being higher. Though I might just be unlucky ! But yeah, 200k is too much.

[disclaimor]

Okay so I've skimmed over all three pages of this thread, I've read a good number of entries but not -every- entry...

and so, forgive me if this has been brought up already... I didn't see it so... here goes.

[/disclaimor]


Isn't there a mechanic in place that increases the chance of a piece of phat-lewt dropping if that character hasn't had a piece drop in a long time?


Couldn't that same mechanic be applied to the farming? Maybe it could be something under-the-hood where whenever X-Value item spawns via chest or resource gather... The character variable of "nFarmerX" is increased. This variable... nFarmerX.... is present on all characters, and for ALL characters that are present in an area that ULTRA-RARE item spawns. -this ultra-rare could be like Adamantine chunk or runic material. And... over time, the value of nFarmerX decreases by a factor of nRL_Days.


As it has been stated previously, groups of players who adventure together, in order to gather enough Adamantine to properly outfit everyone in the group, could take IRL 3 years... (as an example/estimate) and so the value of nFarmerX would never get high enough because these players are properly doing the dungeons, they are doing the expected RP, and even though there are routine spawns of ULTRA-RARE items, the rate of spawn in the presence of those characters is an expected amount.

On the FLIP SIDE... for the Illegal Spawn Farmer... who is resource-logging, and rare-treasure farming... that player's nFarmerX variable will skyrocket with each sequential ULTRA-RARE item found.

PERHAPS as a courtesy-warning... just like the MULE DETECTION warning that you see every time one of your ALTS grabs a stack of paper out of a bin to leave a message, causing the paper to fall on the floor... should the value of nFarmerX ever reach a certain level, it prevents the character from touching said ULTRA-RARE thing... and said resource falls to the ground. That character cannot touch it without the warning firing again... and anyone in that specific area is also affected by this... to prevent PARTIES of farmers from duping the system...

and by having it affect OTHER characters that are in the same area... that allows the players to finger the perpetrator and properly shame them. I know I'd be pretty darn miffed if I spent 2 hrs clearing out a dungeon to kill a boss... only to have the loot drop be un-grabbable because the rogue in my party turned out to be OOC someone who is part of the problem this thread is specifically addressing.

I'd certainly be wary of playing with that person again. It's one thing to be the secret resource farmer that nobody knows about... it's an altogether different thing to get fingered as the problem in public.

Since it is relevant to this discussion going to post the update here as well.

DM Wraith wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:09 am Hi everyone,

The team has noticed that there has been an overall increase in community members that are rune chest/ore camping/logging,  and reset rushing the rune chests and resource nodes.

This is frankly, unacceptable. One thing I wish to clarify is that we are going to be taking a stricter approach with players who choose to engage in this behavior.  Moving forward, anyone caught chest/ore logging, reset rushing rune chests/resource nodes, and camping resources/chests will have all associated items removed from their inventory, as well as receive an experience penalty. Repeated offenses will lead to progressive punishments up to and inclusive of banning.

These resources are not meant to be hoarded by singular members of the community, but meant to be rewards for players whom have the skillsets and abilities to complete the epic level dungeons on Arelith. 

TL;DR - Don't Rune Chest or Resource camp, Its degrading to the community.  DM's will be stricter in these breaches moving forward.

Cheers,
DM Wraith 

Ecthelion wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:27 pm

TimeAdept wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:08 pm The market already crashed, people just stubbornly refuse to adapt to it. Clay's not worth more than 50-60k, finished templates 80-100k max. T1's are 10-20k, 25k for Zard, 8-10 for blueleaf, T2's are 25-30k, 20k for blueleaf, ??? (but about 100-200k generally) for Zard, and T3's are holding solid around 500-750k for blueleaf, 1m-1.5m for the rest, and ??? for Zard, as usual.

everyone else pricing outside this range isn't moving product, stock is sitting in shops for RL months.

Honestly did not saw a single T2 at that price on 'Surface' areas, so I suppose that's UD ? On the T1/T3, agreed, on blueleef too. Probably has to do with the gap in the number of dungeons, I suppose. (If that's indeed UD, otherwise I'm just blind with shops I guess XD)

No one prices them like this anywhere except maybe the clay, which is why the stuff never moves anywhere except the odd Zard. Blueleaf and Chard move soemtimes. Finished t3 runes move sometimes.