Arelith

Brandon Steel wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:49 pm

Tarkus the dog wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:32 pm What about surface characters who are evil and worthy of the Outcast status?

The other part of the update literally answers your question.

Which one?

Tarkus the dog wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:10 pm

Brandon Steel wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:49 pm

Tarkus the dog wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:32 pm What about surface characters who are evil and worthy of the Outcast status?

The other part of the update literally answers your question.

Which one?

Settlement leaders can now declare a person a Pariah within their settlement.

Outcasts suffer the same restrictions as Pariahs in EVERY surface settlement.

If a person is as vile as they were supposed to be as an outcast to begin with they’ll find themselves with the exact status as outcasts given their deeds, surely.

Tarkus the dog wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:10 pm

Brandon Steel wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:49 pm

Tarkus the dog wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:32 pm What about surface characters who are evil and worthy of the Outcast status?

The other part of the update literally answers your question.

Which one?

The Pariah status that player leaders can put on people, it's technically the main part of the update lol.

It's still up to the leaders to make them pariah or not. But fair enough.

That’s kind of the point, dude, they have to get to the point of being an outcast somehow. The people who picked outcast at the start would of already been through the gauntlet.

I like the new update as before this outcasts were pretty much people who just happended to like hang out with both halflings and goblins without any issues. Maybe this will make some play outcasts as actual outcasts as well grow the numbers of other Underdark-races.

I do agree and share the opinion that the surfacers should be "autopariahs" in the Underdark, or at least some of them like the elves and halflings.

I also feel that the Underdarkers should also get right to see outcast status from the description like the surfacers.
Sure we can say "handle it IC" but most of those cases end up into surfacer taking it as bullying them in both IC and OOC.

Pirates too should also become "outcasts/pariahs" at least in the Cordor when they take the ink, since they raid their ships at the seas.

Petrifictus wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:27 am Pirates too should also become "outcasts/pariahs" at least in the Cordor when they take the ink, since they raid their ships at the seas.

I don't think this makes sense to be an automatic thing just yet. It may very well make sense in the near future, though, at the rate things are going. This is what the Pariah status is used for, I guess.

We'll see it come up in a future thread. More belly aching about how evil is mistreated on the server and how it isn't any fun to play as a pirate because of how universally hated they are, and how they need their own settlement to escape persecution.

The question should probably be asked, what if you are made a pariah everywhere?

Mr_Rieper wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:49 am The question should probably be asked, what if you are made a pariah everywhere?

Congratulations! Your character has evolved into Outcast!

I also wonder if there is any limit how many can be named as pariahs in the settlement or how many resources they cost.

Also maybe the high rank pirates would become "autopariahs/outcasts" since they have already done a lot with the piracy on the Cordorian ships.

Mr_Rieper wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:49 amWe'll see it come up in a future thread. More belly aching about how evil is mistreated on the server and how it isn't any fun to play as a pirate because of how universally hated they are, and how they need their own settlement to escape persecution.

The question should probably be asked, what if you are made a pariah everywhere?

p sure they have sencliff & sibayad tho.

Am I the only one that finds this change a little boring? I won't lie, I have enough issue with the "tag" system overwriting nuance and making things linear. But, the thing that I think to myself even more than before is "What is the point?" These tags seem to push more and more into rules governing your hold of them and they seem to stifle more than they create.

The server is generally story inactive already as it is. Do we need more separation checks to make people not want to play rather than changes that promote healthy conflict and development? As is, I'd quit any Outcast character I'm playing if I had one. Pirates now seem to be the new "Outcasts" anyway for what that's worth and I haven't enjoyed the general observation of what that's done. Arelith isn't very friendly a setting for "on seas" combat and PvP on a ship or on islands is limited. There still doesn't seem to be enough of what a pirate can do to stand out as a pirate. I guess there is to NPCs but really that's a one sided event that the other side doesn't get to observe/react to. But despite that, they're given a pretty rough RP state that will only get worse when more people learn the systems behind their tags.

I can understand how upset an outcast player can really be as their definition has kind of expanded beyond many of their character ideas and it's framed in something that is just going to lead to a specific build style rather than interesting nuance. Are you an outcast? Better have disguise planned in the build otherwise you're basically an underdarker in human/orc skin. I actually don't mind the concept of characters that don't fit into conventional society. The difference is this seems to be a choice at level 3 that you could make the same character with the same personality and the only difference is you either started in Cordor/Skal or started in Andunor with a free language and a tag that everyone gets to see that says you're "bad." One involves RP and nuance and storytelling to show a villain/person that doesn't fit in society. The other is just a tag that says it on the character description. The same can easily be said with the pirates except it's Sencliff and it's a different tag that says you're bad and most people can see it once you've gone far enough in an NPC quest line.

When tags tell more of a character and enforce more of their RP than their actions, there is a problem.

Are the penalties really that bad? Not being able to use Surface shops, ships, and not being able to vote sounds all terribly minor to me. Though I'd personally allow PC shops, since those should be stipulated only by PC reactions, in my humbledore.

From what I understand, the change is meant to emulate the NPCs' reactions towards your character, of settlements and the populace as a whole, while the PCs would still be entitled to their own opinions about the outcasts. The effect, I assume, is to make the status of the outcast a palpable one; you are visibly shunned, denied service by shops and officials, and so on. Otherwise, couldn't you just start as a non-Outcast and go live in the UD for pretty much the same effect as the previous version of the Outcast?

I'd see the mechanical restrictions as a boon to Outcast RP rather than punishment. You'll really get in touch with your surface outsiderness.

While outcast cannot vote in surface settlements (which wasn't part of this update, and is nearly as old as outcast themselves).

Pariah maintain the ability to vote and even issue leadership challenges of settlements they're pariah'd from.


This is because "voting" isn't voting but being able to show support/strength for your potentially to-be leader.

I think it makes perfect sense. a character with the "OUTCAST" tag on it prior to the update, could move reasonably freely through every settlement. They would have access to every player-shop. Most 'could' move through Andunor with minimal harassment and STILL feel welcome on the streets of Cordor.

What this update does (IMO) is force the players that should already be moving through back-alleys and working through (for lack of a better term) criminal underground networks and/or black-markets out of the light and into those shadowy places (where they should have been all along)

And for characters that already do this... there is little change. For everyone else, it adds a great mechanic for their RP.


Shopkeepers, when they see an outcast come to their counter SHOULD say, "We don't serve your kind here." -or just simply put up the 'closed' sign right as the outcast comes to the door... doing so with a nasty unwelcoming glare at them. NOW it is much more mechanically the case. Bravo!

The Kriv wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:24 pm I think it makes perfect sense. a character with the "OUTCAST" tag on it prior to the update, could move reasonably freely through every settlement. They would have access to every player-shop. Most 'could' move through Andunor with minimal harassment and STILL feel welcome on the streets of Cordor.

What this update does (IMO) is force the players that should already be moving through back-alleys and working through (for lack of a better term) criminal underground networks and/or black-markets out of the light and into those shadowy places (where they should have been all along)

And for characters that already do this... there is little change. For everyone else, it adds a great mechanic for their RP.


Shopkeepers, when they see an outcast come to their counter SHOULD say, "We don't serve your kind here." -or just simply put up the 'closed' sign right as the outcast comes to the door... doing so with a nasty unwelcoming glare at them. NOW it is much more mechanically the case. Bravo!

I feel the same way.

It's just a mechanic to enforce RP that should have (in most cases) already been happening.

Love it.

Will now seriously consider outcast in a future character (never would have before)

Xerah wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:24 pm Love it.

Will now seriously consider outcast in a future character (never would have before)

Agreed. Every update that has made life more difficult for Outcasts has just made me want to play them more. I made my current (and first ever) Outcast after the update that added Outcasts status on examine. I was inspired by the RP opportunities of playing a character who truly doesn't belong anywhere at all, due to circumstances, misfortune, and his own mistakes.

I didn't roll up an Outcast not to be hated/derided wherever he goes. This is literally what I signed up for. If I didn't want that, I'd just play a Surfacer!

Wonder how many Outcasts have been made with the intention of just being "special Surfacers."

Same with slaves.

I wouldn't be surprised if this mechanical decision was influenced by that.

Seven Sons of Sin wrote: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:08 pm Wonder how many Outcasts have been made with the intention of just being "special Surfacers."

Same with slaves.

I wouldn't be surprised if this mechanical decision was influenced by that.

I've been playing a surfacer for a while and I only ever saw one or two outcasts that weren't in the UD. While I'm only one person looking, I don't think it could have been that many.

Looking further into this, pirate tag is just a better outcast now. Both have the same ish level of acceptance in the UD, but one isn't auto-pariah'd in surface settlements. Pirates can get more writs than a normal character, go all around the island and underdark, and not have the crippling penalties outcasts have.

So, why play an outcast over a pirate now, other than flavor?

Outcast still has access to the UD portal network, which is very useful.

Access to The Hub portal, access to Treadstone portal, access to join districts / vote / settlement storage. Access to UD writs. I've personally considered making my pirate character an outcast considering he is pretty much Outcasted from every city on the surface already. I will admit, there really isn't much of a difference from a purely mechanical standpoint.

Cortex wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:58 pm Looking further into this, pirate tag is just a better outcast now. Both have the same ish level of acceptance in the UD, but one isn't auto-pariah'd in surface settlements. Pirates can get more writs than a normal character, go all around the island and underdark, and not have the crippling penalties outcasts have.

So, why play an outcast over a pirate now, other than flavor?

Can pirates be members of any of the settlements, like mechanically? If they can, then yeah, superior to outcasts. If not, then relegated to the trashbin that is Sencliff isle.

Pirates are completely barred from all politics, which is why their only real way to interact with people is to play murderhobos.

"Politics or PvP" being the only options really sums up the brain worm a lot of people have.

Please keep the discussion civil. Sweeping generalities about other players or their supposed intentions is neither required nor desired.