Polymorph TS Suggestion

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

Or just don't fix something that isn't broken. Skillful sneaks have learned how to corner-sneak Umberhulks for years, and know when, where, and who door-humping is appropriate against and who it isn't. Scouting out your areas beforehand and knowing your LOS breaks is what separates someone with a sneak build and someone that know how to -play- a sneak.

So you're saying a sneak will know, watching someone Umber before opening their quarters, that they should not door-hump that person? That feels like a double-blind.

I think the actual point is that the act of "door humping, " as it was eloquently put, is ridiculous to the point of being called door humping in the first place, and that if door humping right in someone's face is acceptable stealth rp, I don't see why turning into an umber hulk to counter it is any worse than using hide and move silently in a well lit hallway with nowhere to hide.

[-XXX-]

Yes, let's remove all the counters to stealth, then roll up a stealthy character and spend 100% of our online time in stealth mode everyone!
Imagine the profound RP possibilities!

[Twily]

A little late to the party on this one, but..

I'm not against True Sight being removed from Umberhulk and replaced with a listen bonus.

That said, I do echo a concern I saw voiced here.
True Sight lasts such a short duration that people can and do cheese it. I've seen it occur many times, where a mage casts true sight and sees the stealth person, and their response is to without a single word go hide behind a pillar, close a door or similar for the next round.

One particularly bad instance was while I was on my weave master. I cast true sight, they hid behind a pillar and did circles around it as I tried to stay in line of sight. I declared that I could see them and they made no response. I cast true sight again. They did the same thing again. I cast true sight again. They did the same thing again. I cast true sight again. You get the idea. In the end they refused to say a single word and I had to just give up.

The point is, true sight lasts for such a short duration that some players just cheese it to the point of obsolescence.

The Umberhulk form is one of the only counters to this currently.

Perhaps the removal of it from umberhulk could be accompanied by an extension to the duration of true sight? Even just 1 extra round would help this problem a lot.


And yes, before someone calls me out on it, I know divination focuses increase the duration. Being forced to take divination focuses for the spell to have any use in cases like just seems like a bit much to me. Even as little as one extra round would give enough time for a mage to get around the pillar and cast a CC spell, if someone is really cheesing it as bad as in my above case.
In my eyes when a sneak is caught they should either make a get away(which I don't think one extra round on true sight would affect much), or come out and roleplay with people. Cheesing true sight to stay there 'undetected' just seems silly to me.

[Diegovog]

A little late to the party on this one, but..

I'm not against True Sight being removed from Umberhulk and replaced with a listen bonus.

That said, I do echo a concern I saw voiced here.
True Sight lasts such a short duration that people can and do cheese it. I've seen it occur many times, where a mage casts true sight and sees the stealth person, and their response is to without a single word go hide behind a pillar, close a door or similar for the next round.

One particularly bad instance was while I was on my weave master. I cast true sight, they hid behind a pillar and did circles around it as I tried to stay in line of sight. I declared that I could see them and they made no response. I cast true sight again. They did the same thing again. I cast true sight again. They did the same thing again. I cast true sight again. You get the idea. In the end they refused to say a single word and I had to just give up.

The point is, true sight lasts for such a short duration that some players just cheese it to the point of obsolescence.

The Umberhulk form is one of the only counters to this currently.

Perhaps the removal of it from umberhulk could be accompanied by an extension to the duration of true sight? Even just 1 extra round would help this problem a lot.


And yes, before someone calls me out on it, I know divination focuses increase the duration. Being forced to take divination focuses for the spell to have any use in cases like just seems like a bit much to me. Even as little as one extra round would give enough time for a mage to get around the pillar and cast a CC spell, if someone is really cheesing it as bad as in my above case.
In my eyes when a sneak is caught they should either make a get away(which I don't think one extra round on true sight would affect much), or come out and roleplay with people. Cheesing true sight to stay there 'undetected' just seems silly to me.

So, was the cheese part the person physically hiding behind an object or the infinite casting of true seeing?

[AstralUniverse]

So, was the cheese part the person physically hiding behind an object or the infinite casting of true seeing?

Definitely the person circling a pillar.


So my two cents here:

First of all, watching people turn to hulks in the middle of settlements or before sensitive doors makes me cringe. There was a time not very long ago that half the server had wands of "turn to a monstrosity to spot [certain character]". I dont care how powerful rogues are mechanically in combat and using this polymorph against them in a hostile environment and weakening yourself to do it... not very smart in first place.. So I'm definitely in favor of this change but only for RP reasons. Some balance tweaks might be required, following such a change. But it doesnt make it a bad change. I also think that giving the hulk some ridiculously high Listen score means it can effectively tell you "there's someone else in the room" without blowing their cover right away but also without letting them get away with what people referred to as "Walking by you in broad daylight as if it were invisibility". I think the best way to balance it is with a very high listen score. It seems fair, interactive, allows the rogue to remain hidden without their avatar and name revealed while giving the people in the room a chance to understand that they arent alone, and if the rogue doesnt move at all it raises their odds against the 'tremor sense'.