Arelith

Why? Outcasts can't even be made right now anyway, there's barely any, and it flies against the years, now, of Outcasts in leadership positions and the overall fabric of Andunor.

Why? Well, why not?

Arelith just as Andunor is in a constant flux of mechanics and politics. Because something has worked as it has for years does not mean it is the best option, and nothing is lost discussing and trying new things that may increase the quality of experience or immersion of players.

That is what for we are discussing, right? To make Arelith a better place to roleplay at?

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Oh, and I definitely agree that "Outcast Creation" should be fixed, if it is indeed bugged and you can't even make one now.

And my thoughts/ideas are based on the idea of Outcasts being free to be created without an award again.

Outcasts being a normal award now totally make the idea pointless. Dont know what I was thinking when I made my earlier post. Until they are freely available again, I dont see the need to restrict them at all. The award that you use to get them, could be used to lower ecl by 2 making them faster to level. Drow with a -2 ecl award will level faster, and a human on surface will also get more exp per same challenge rating.

Chosen Son wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 7:07 am Outcasts being a normal award now totally make the idea pointless. Dont know what I was thinking when I made my earlier post. Until they are freely available again, I dont see the need to restrict them at all. The award that you use to get them, could be used to lower ecl by 2 making them faster to level. Drow with a -2 ecl award will level faster, and a human on surface will also get more exp per same challenge rating.

i've said it before and i'll say it again, i think this is a much cleaner solution;

to make a Slave or an Outcast as a brand new character, expend a Minor award (which is waived for 30+RORs); other characters can still become Slaves and Outcasts through game-play (by capture and by DM acknowledgment of PC notoriety/RP).

edit: proposing to make outcasts work for their position, make themselves useful, etc was the case when they were first added. they had to justify their existence to the population. they did; just like goblins and kobolds did when they were banished from the surface years ago - it'd be more in line with lore to propose goblins are relegated to the "not considered people until proven" role than humans.

Kuma wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 8:36 am to make a Slave or an Outcast as a brand new character, expend a Minor award (which is waived for 30+RORs); other characters can still become Slaves and Outcasts through game-play (by capture and by DM acknowledgment of PC notoriety/RP).

Again, please keep RPR and awards unrelated in every way. Classes like PM and assassin at 20 rpr is one thing, awards are a different thing. No one's time is more valuable than another's. We're all equal human beings pretty much.

My feedback is this, and I'm sure it'll be unpopular but I don't care, keep Outcasts as a Normal reward. UD writs and XP are balanced around monster races like drow which have higher ECL. That means human characters in the UD level up much faster compared to other races there, probably even faster than most normal reward -2 ECL Surface characters. I've spent a couple of normal rewards on -2 ECL to level up characters faster on the surface. If people just want to pick human for the mechanical benefits, and on top of that also get faster leveling, they should have to spend a normal reward just like I did.

There's also the fact most outcast players end up hanging out on the surface all the time once they reach 30, and try to force some kind of redemption arc on everyone which I've seen the DM's typically shut down using NPC's. If we want to see less of this, keeping it gated behind a Normal reward is definitely the way to go in my opinion.

Edit: If we do open up Outcasts for everyone to create without using a reward, at least give them +2-3 ECL or something to slow down their leveling.

That argument might have held water once upon a time. But with gifts, practically speaking, every character is in the 2-3 ECL range regardless of their base race ECL (Since higher ECL means less gifts are available.) And a human who chooses not to take gifts is already throwing away their "mechanical advantage."

I'm also not sure about the notion that the UD is a faster leveling experience by design, not when the worst offenders of easy XP down there have been nerfed over time as the devs get wise to their existence.

I feel obliged to say (and can confirm after personal testing) currently the outcast award is bugged, and it's impossible to make an outcast.
I think the team should be working on it to get that sorted
But it's only fair to point out that maybe the reason we're seeing a lot of slave characters is also because it's literally impossible to make an outcast character right now.

The GrumpyCat wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 1:27 pm I feel obliged to say (and can confirm after personal testing) currently the outcast award is bugged, and it's impossible to make an outcast.
I think the team should be working on it to get that sorted
But it's only fair to point out that maybe the reason we're seeing a lot of slave characters is also because it's literally impossible to make an outcast character right now.

We wont know for sure until the bug is resolved but I'm like 99% sure people with accessible award for outcast will simply play slave with negative ecl instead. lol. Slave also = being valuable to another high lvl character = better and easier access to items, crafters and RP.

Yea, the bulk of slaves being made already attached to an epic character or twelve does exacerbate the uber-slaves problem, dunnit. Would love to revisit this thread a month or two after that bug gets fixed.