Arelith

ReverentBlade wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:39 am Even if there weren't notells, I would never respond to these sorts of things OOCly anyway.

Well, a lot of people would and do appreciate being asked. You do need permission to raise someone after "Conflict RP" with them, if you want to continue RP and waive the 24 hour rule.

ReverentBlade wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:55 amMansplaining

Using this word unironically? Yikes.

I don't even know how to put someone on notells and at this point I'm too afraid to ask

To be honest, I never really thought twice about the people who use no-tells. A minor inconvenience in the case of post pvp perhaps, but it's not something I ever felt strongly about (though I do see the merits on both sides). I just rarely send out tells as it is.

This thread makes me kind of glad I'm not in touch with some of those people.

Zavandar wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:06 pm I don't even know how to put someone on notells and at this point I'm too afraid to ask

-notells in the chat window.
http://wiki.arelith.com/Console_command#-notells

I am one of those players who generally finds tells extraordinarily distracting. I used to play with -notells years ago and I really enjoyed it.

I stopped using -notells because I started hearing about the rather staggering amount of vitriol directed towards players who use it: people assuming that -notells means that the player is a jerk who doesn’t want to collaborate with others and avoiding RPing with them because of that… I was taken aback by this! For me, nothing could be further from the truth. On the contrary, I used -notells because (and I understand this is not the case for everyone) I find tells extremely distracting and I want to devote as close to 100% of my attention on YOU while I’m RPing with you. For me -notells is about being present and completely engaged with the RP I’m currently in.

I understand why some players might make negative assumptions about players with -notells. You have very little information about why you can’t send tells to that person. They might seem like a stuck up jerk. It might even feel personal. While I can’t speak for everyone, for my own part I can say that if I had -notells on it is absolutely 100% not personal and I absolutely do not intend to insult you or cause you any negative feelings whatsoever. For me -notells is both about protecting my own experience and ensuring that when I am RPing with you, I am bringing you my best self.

I think almost anything that might be communicated OOCly can be communicated in-character. Even an OOC-willingness to make a fun story together can be portrayed through RP I think, even in adversarial situations. I often try to do this through humor, attentiveness, and doing my best to assume best intent of others, and there are surely other ways. Maybe I’m naive in this and other people disagree, but generally speaking I find OOC communication to be necessary maybe .05% of the time. And keeping yourself open to tells at all times just to receive those .05% of necessary tells absolutely comes with costs.

And that’s the thing. What I’ve found speaking to other people about this is that People Are Different. Some people can chat up in tells with others all day long and not find it interferes with their experience at all, maybe they even find it enhances it. But then there are other people, like me, who find tells extremely jarring, distracting, energy-draining. Then there are (most) people somewhere in the middle of those two extremes. I won’t deny that sometimes OOC communication is necessary. But in my experience at least 95% of the tells I get are not necessary at all, and due to where I fall on that spectrum, they take a sufficient toll on my experience that the cost/benefit of tells to my enjoyment of the game teeters on the verge of wanting to just block all of them and accept those costs instead.

If I could add one feature to Arelith that would probably enhance my experience more than any other it would be some kind of “Tell Inbox” or some other way that I could control the flow/amount/type of OOC communication I receive, with the goal of facilitating all the good parts of OOC communication and providing tools to discourage the parts I find negatively impact my experience. In the absence of such a system I do currently play with tells enabled because I understand sometimes it is necessary… but I’d be lying if I said it wasn’t a struggle sometimes.

I don't know how this keeps derailing into the extremes of yes/no about no tell being a function at all.

I just want it to be fair. If you have notell on, then you shouldn't be able to send tells either. Right now it's the 'cake and eat it too' of OOC communication.

ReverentBlade wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:53 am It already does.

??????
If you mean disabling sending tells with notells, like.
That's easily gotten around by toggling it anyway?

telling mean people to stop talking to me and reporting them if they don't has worked well for me in the past

otherwise, most of the tells I get are positive. maybe someone telling me something that made them laugh, or wanting to know if I got a speedy (since they do bug sometimes), or the aforementioned coordination (brb, afk, etc)

discord exists and I know most people here use it. it's not that different. the chat box you look at is just in a different window

all this being said I dont really care if notells exists. it has personally inconvenienced me more than helped, but it was situations like "this dude is messaging me and I cant respond aaaaa". not the end of the world

Drowboy wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:34 pm

ReverentBlade wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:53 am It already does.

??????
If you mean disabling sending tells with notells, like.
That's easily gotten around by toggling it anyway?

You can toggle it on and off, yeah.

Zavandar wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:38 pm discord exists and I know most people here use it. it's not that different. the chat box you look at is just in a different window

not the end of the world

Yes it isn't the end of the world. It's a mild inconvenience and maybe has russeled quite a few jimmies that I didn't even know existed.

But to you point earlier about discord: right now the function of notell feels like people on discord privately sending me messages and blocking me from replying. It's just a little frustrating is all.

I can report that what Skibbles is talking about has happened to me. Correct me if I'm wrong OP, but this isn't a thread about should or shouldn't -notells exist, this is simply a request that if you have -notells on you shouldn't be able to send a tell as well to someone else.

All the people that say "this already exists" are wrong. This doesn't exist, and I've received tells from people with -notells enabled.

Ork wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:07 pm I can report that what Skibbles is talking about has happened to me. Correct me if I'm wrong OP, but this isn't a thread about should or shouldn't -notells exist, this is simply a request that if you have -notells on you shouldn't be able to send a tell as well to someone else.

All the people that say "this already exists" are wrong. This doesn't exist, and I've received tells from people with -notells enabled.

My original request was that the sender be aware they have blocked the person they're talking to (I was wrong - THIS was the thing that existed). The intention of my request was to make the function fair and balanced between two parties.

Since I was wrong, and the sender is evidently aware, I continued with my intention that it be fair by shifting my request to have the function simply disable tells entirely for both parties instead of it favoring one person only - or at least changing the function to allow a temporary line of communication between both players.

Ork wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:07 pm I can report that what Skibbles is talking about has happened to me. Correct me if I'm wrong OP, but this isn't a thread about should or shouldn't -notells exist, this is simply a request that if you have -notells on you shouldn't be able to send a tell as well to someone else.

All the people that say "this already exists" are wrong. This doesn't exist, and I've received tells from people with -notells enabled.

This ^^
This is how i'd like to see it. Clearly there's about an even split in those that like having -notells around and those that don't, but ultimately the main gripe I, and many others apparently, have is the, as Skibbles put it, "'cake and eat it too' of OOC communication." and that's just not right.

It's not very common but I have received tells from people with -notells on, most of them were either rude and insulting remarks after PvP or a bad encounter, or just a generic tell that requires a response and trying to respond at all only to be greeted by the big -notell barrier is incredibly frustrating.

Now obviously I report the former situations but being able to be a jerk to someone while having them blocked from the get go is the major flaw with the system. Sure players shouldn't get into arguments and spats in tells anyway but it happens, but what's worse is when one person can insult or be rude to another while keeping themselves protected from any sort of counter argument or even apologetic response if you were in the wrong. And yes you can then block them but the damage is already done, the feelings of bitterness have settled in, and you now most likely will avoid that player in the future due to this.

The original post is quite simple, it'd be nice if anyone that uses -notells, individual or universal version, was also unable to send tells to those other players. Right now that is not the case, the message may appear but you can still send the tell, and this can be abused to bully others and that's not okay.

Scenario: an individual blocks me on -notells, that individual sends me a tell, a pop-up says they have me blocked however the message is still communicated to me. When I try to respond, I discover I cannot because I have been blocked.

True?

Ork wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:24 pm Scenario: an individual blocks me on -notells, that individual sends me a tell, a pop-up says they have me blocked however the message is still communicated to me. When I try to respond, I discover I cannot because I have been blocked.

True?

Yes that's true, and that's why I started the thread.

The tell I received wasn't even negative. It was nice, and we were both having a good time, but it just sort of smarts a bit that I'm not able to reciprocate in a conversation.

If I didn't know the player, and they sent me a tell, it could come off as rude that they're willing to talk at me but block my replies. Obviously that's probably not going to be the case in the vast majority of situations - but the negative impression of being blocked from responding when being talked to is a very natural human response. We're social creatures.

I think that may be why some people have a very negative opinion of notell in general.

My only negative interactions with the feature have come from people who I guess are very unobservant and miss the message.

Them: "Hey I sent you a runner awhile ago, did you get it?"
Them: "Are you going to show up?"
Them: "Hello, I've been waiting for 20 minutes, why are you ignoring me?!"
Them: *Less cordial mutterings*

And I'll be in a position where I can't send a runner myself nor am I at a spot where I reasonably can drop everything.

If it doesn't already flash up in yellow text in the middle of the screen the text "You currently have this person blocked. They won't be able to reply! (Use -notells to configure)" my suggestion would be to change it to also show there.

Or:

If you have notells on and send a tell to someone it automatically whitelists them (and you can go through the process to flip it back on for them).

I see the logic behind the issue of someone having the ability to send problematic ooc messages without any ability to be replied to. Simply put if you experience this, whether or not notells is a factor, please report it.

Beyond that much like any other tool in the Arelith world, use it as you would. No one is better, or lesser for doing so.