Potion of Attunement: A bit too good

[Morgy]

I'm not sure I follow why portals have anything to do with Potions of Attunement allowing easy escapes.

I wonder when these potions were designed, was it the intent for them to be used to often to escape pvp, rather than planar travel/exploration/experimentation? If not, perhaps they should be looked at as a matter of course.

On the topic of 'no fear of death', there is an observable issue of PCs doing the same thing over and over, in public spaces, then dying and repeating a day or two later. I don't mean that they are trolling, because they are in fact RPing, but it's madness doing the same thing and expecting to die again.

I currently play a very active anti-slaver, and wouldn't dream of sneaking around the Hub to only shop/loiter, when playing a PC that values his life. I think I've taken him to Andunor once in the last two months, and that was for a very specific mission.. simply because he doesn't want to be caught and tortured/killed. If I did risk this, and got caught over and over, that would be a very strange IC thing to do.

[Nobs]

if there where no portals or at the very least droped to 5% of the current portal locations then a potion af attune would perhaps be even dangerous to use for some of us.

I seen posts on this forum complaining about scry gangs , attune pots , portal lenses and it all comes down to that its just to easy to go from place to place on Arelith.

[Mattamue]

Plenty of other servers without portals, potions, or lens. One of the reasons I play here is for the mechanical convenience and epic magic feel of being able to teleport, a dnd staple. I hope portaling is one of those things that won't go away.

For the argument potions, making them more obvious that they're being used would be cool. Like an effect that lingers to show a portal happened. Or maybe leave a portal source behind that can be followed.

[Edens_Fall]

Character conflict has narritive value. A thief being able to instantly escape the moment they get caught pickpocketing, a burglar getting caught in the act, a known vampire being caught shopping in a civilised city has value being processed and them being scared off and caught out. Just because you play a bad (or good) and don't like PVP, it doesn't mean the character is narritively immune to bad things happening to it when they take extreme risk becuase they can immediately whisk themself out of situations.

The discussion I have presented is of the relative balance between escape options and the ability to catch people. I am not advocating for the removal of potions of attunement entirely.

I completely agree. Character conflict has great value in a narrative. Thieves can slip away with the prize, burglars caught can escape the city guards, and a vampire hunting for prey can create a memorable encounter for some lucky traveler. Both can win or lose based on an untold number of factors. That is awesome, fun, and exciting. But escaping death doesn't make them immune to bad things. It just means they got away and might not the next time.

Not every encounter has to end in a KB. But let's be honest . . . how many don't? A pickpocket, a minor crime in most law systems, use to result in immediate death to the criminal if caught. All over a handful of gold. A burglar caught in someone's house? You bet that's PvP. Vampire in a city? ROFL that's a "death" no matter where they are found. So the "villain" is left with a choice. Stay and face the person that caught them (generally outnumbered) or flee. Sure they can risk it and stay, but what narrative value can they expect to happen? Honestly? Do they take that chance the other PC will offer them a chance at great RP? A chance to escape? A fine and a warning? OR do they run knowing chances are very high they will be killed and Paraihed in most settlements for such crimes? All it takes is a few back encounters over the years to scar either side's player from risking RP over a fast escape or even faster attack.

It's an infinite loop we have currently. One side runs at the drop of a hat because they know they will be killed, while the other side attacks at the drop of a hat fearing their prey might escape. No idea how to fix it, other than hoping players focus more on storytelling and less on PvP winning.

Either way, I am just sharing some thoughts, and nothing is directed at you or against you. I just felt its good to hear from both perspectives in things like these. Not just from those who lament "the one ear that got away" but from those who more often than not, lose said ears.

I personally think that we're all quite limited in giving someone great RP when they continue to come into enemy territory without showing any fear. I don't go walking my good guy into the Hub either and expect anything other than being chased out, attacked or killed. Known Vampires or other evils shouldn't feel safe walking into a place like Cordor or the Radiant Heart either.

This server is build on good and evil (and the in-betweens). A vampire is an example of extreme evil and a paladin of extreme good. You're a Paladin, you let the vampire go. Why? What RP is this going to create for anyone when you encounter a vampire in the city you are sworn to protect? What logic would apply to a Paladin to let someone like that go? When the vampire shows no fear or understanding why they are being hated by the good guys. Or the Abyssalist, Animator, Infernalist.. Name it. What RP do you hope to create with walking into their city? Sure, you can say you're there to prey on the innocent. Great! You might even get away with it and created a cool story for someone who's had their blood sucked by a Vampire and may now suffer whatever trauma from that. Awesome! And keep doing that for sure. But at the end of the day, you're hunting in enemy territory, you should be prepared that someone may find you and will want you dead.

I'm no proponent of corpse bashing. I might do it on rare occasions if it furthers RP, but otherwise I don't. That's a personal choice and I don't expect others to do that back for me. But the point is that you should be prepared for that being a possibility especially when you go seeking out conflict. The infinite loop to some exists because they keep actively putting themselves in these situations and there's simply not enough options to end conflict in these situations any other way. When people don't respect death or RP fear, there's really not much else you can do.

This connects to one of the scenarios I mentioned in an earlier post. If you actively go seek it out and then cheese an escape through a potion, pointing and laughing at the people who weren't able to catch you? I don't think that's particularly respectful or abiding by the 'Be Nice' rule either nor is it giving those people any RP. You come in, do your bad thing and the moment you get caught you chug a potion of instant escape causing a situation where the others will never have a chance to get <insert justice/revenge etc.> It would feel very much being RP'd at for the opposing team/people/individuals too.

Sorry if my post was worded poorly and gave the wrong impression. I am not against PvP, being hunted, or being killed. No one is beyond PvP on Arelith. I should know that better than most all things considered. That's kind of why it's so fun to sneak into other areas to create RP like Cordor. It's the fear of getting caught and the rush of getting away. I can only hope it offers the same fun for those of the settlement as well. Though I can also understand why the other side would feel a loss should someone they find or track down manage to escape. Setting aside the very limited example of Vampire and paladin (which only one has ever let me go due to some rather impressive wordplay, not to brag, on my part) how often does meaningful RP come out of these confrontations? Before the recent rule changes, pickpockets (again a minor crime) if caught would be cut down in the city street. Same if someone found you in their home. Everything is PvP, as that's the only WIN that matters, which was kind of the point I was aiming at. So long as that is the end result, why would we get upset with those that flee a onesided battle or certain death? If a paladin was sent to Andunor on a mission and discovered would he surrender for RP or high tail it out of there to report back?

I just don't understand the problem. It's the interaction of these two sides that provide most of the RP on Arelith outside social events. Why does it matter if the person you killed two days ago gets away this time? There will most likely be another chance to kill them again . . . and again. If it's a settlement issue, then exile them. If one feels they are breaking the Be Nice Rule by visiting and causing issues too often, report them. If it's a matter of feeling being RP'd at rather than with . . . I'm not sure how to handle such. I imagine seeing some escape with a potion after you found them is as frustrating as being sent to the fugue after a single-line body slam. It's just kind of the way Arelith works these days with PvP burst Meta being the big narrative controller.

All that aside, it just feels personally wrong somehow to limit ways of escape, as I worry it will only encourage players to remain entrenched within their perspective settlements and behind guard forces rather than visiting other locations and seeking RP.

BONUS FUN: Take heart D4wN, not once I have ever escaped Cordor via Potion. Lens, Spells, and Haste still work fine. So your victories there and by your men have been well earned, at least in regards to me

[Edens_Fall]

I'm not sure I follow why portals have anything to do with Potions of Attunement allowing easy escapes.

I wonder when these potions were designed, was it the intent for them to be used to often to escape pvp, rather than planar travel/exploration/experimentation? If not, perhaps they should be looked at as a matter of course.

On the topic of 'no fear of death', there is an observable issue of PCs doing the same thing over and over, in public spaces, then dying and repeating a day or two later. I don't mean that they are trolling, because they are in fact RPing, but it's madness doing the same thing and expecting to die again.

I currently play a very active anti-slaver, and wouldn't dream of sneaking around the Hub to only shop/loiter, when playing a PC that values his life. I think I've taken him to Andunor once in the last two months, and that was for a very specific mission.. simply because he doesn't want to be caught and tortured/killed. If I did risk this, and got caught over and over, that would be a very strange IC thing to do.

I think there's a difference between "No Fear of Death" and "Respect of Death". Players should be respecting Death, but that doesn't mean not returning to a location after you were KB there last week. The Hub would be a ghost town if that was a rule. Let's also not forget that most of us kill dragons at least once a week. Maybe even Mind Flayers or whatever other horrors. If such foes don't make one weep under a bed, never leaving the city walls, then why would visiting a surface town or the island's only open Trade Hub be the line in the sand?

NOTE: I'm not taking aim at your anti-slave PC. I knew your Underdark PC and understand how good your RP is. I think it's great you decided to take the hard line with your character's concept. But not everyone can or wants to go so deep on their own PC's.

Arelith is a PvP server, and no one can escape death. If anyone has a PC for any length of time (double so if you're evil) your likely going to be killed several times in the general area of places (double so if it's the Hub). It would be unfair to expect people to avoid an area past the 48 Hours just because they have died there.

However, if someone is not respecting Death, such as returning every 48 Hours to repeat the same crime under the idea "The Gods love me and will never let me stay dead forever!" that would be a clear DM report.

The above is just my personal take on the matter of course, and I am known for being wrong.

[Choofed]

if there where no portals or at the very least droped to 5% of the current portal locations then a potion af attune would perhaps be even dangerous to use for some of us.

I seen posts on this forum complaining about scry gangs , attune pots , portal lenses and it all comes down to that its just to easy to go from place to place on Arelith.

I feel this is outside the scope of the topic at hand here, which is the relative balance of attunement potions, and might need to be a feedback thread of it's own that you should produce.

That's kind of why it's so fun to sneak into other areas to create RP like Cordor. It's the fear of getting caught and the rush of getting away. I can only hope it offers the same fun for those of the settlement as well.

It doesn't, presently it only gives the RP of 'I escape and you can do nothing about it unless you throw aside all RP and are purely focused on mechanics', and this is one of the reasons I made the thread. A lot of the time, people are using them at the first sight of a problem. Often, it's in cases where people are going increadibly deep into terrifyingly risky situations, and are just drinking the attunement potion immediately and not engaging in RP at all.

You may say this is 'Poor RP' and 'Against the rules' but as they presently are it isn't. Mechanics of the game re-enforce the behavior of there being minimal risk to going into areas that should be high risk for a character, and escaping regardless of the odds due to the nature of these items.

Potions of attunement as escape mechanisms are increadibly lop-sided towards the evader, and even if we accepted in design principle that we want a relative balance favouring the evader this would still be too much.

Having escape mechanisms that require little to no thought, work increadibly reliably, can only be countered by spellcaster specific epic feat usage before the situation has started, and can only be stopped by 1 rounding someone is problematic. They should be rebalanced.

[Nobs]

You can do something about it though.

Think that even a level 1 grease scroll gets folks in fight mode and they wont be able to tp?

[Morgy]

You can do something about it though.

Think that even a level 1 grease scroll gets folks in fight mode and they wont be able to tp?

That’s just advocating opening PvP asap, which is not the aim. The issue is mostly that as soon as you move in to do confrontational RP, these people just wordlessly ‘uses item’, then vanishes a moment later. If we all did this, whenever we thought conflict might arise, this server would be very dull.

[quote=Morgy post_id=309215 time=<a href="tel:1665831749">1665831749</a> user_id=3876]
I'm not sure I follow why portals have anything to do with Potions of Attunement allowing easy escapes.

I wonder when these potions were designed, was it the intent for them to be used to often to escape pvp, rather than planar travel/exploration/experimentation? If not, perhaps they should be looked at as a matter of course.

On the topic of 'no fear of death', there is an observable issue of PCs doing the same thing over and over, in public spaces, then dying and repeating a day or two later. I don't mean that they are trolling, because they are in fact RPing, but it's madness doing the same thing and expecting to die again.

I currently play a very active anti-slaver, and wouldn't dream of sneaking around the Hub to only shop/loiter, when playing a PC that values his life. I think I've taken him to Andunor once in the last two months, and that was for a very specific mission.. simply because he doesn't want to be caught and tortured/killed. If I did risk this, and got caught over and over, that would be a very strange IC thing to do.

I think there's a difference between "No Fear of Death" and "Respect of Death". Players should be respecting Death, but that doesn't mean not returning to a location after you were KB there last week. The Hub would be a ghost town if that was a rule. Let's also not forget that most of us kill dragons at least once a week. Maybe even Mind Flayers or whatever other horrors. If such foes don't make one weep under a bed, never leaving the city walls, then why would visiting a surface town or the island's only open Trade Hub be the line in the sand?

NOTE: I'm not taking aim at your anti-slave PC. I knew your Underdark PC and understand how good your RP is. I think it's great you decided to take the hard line with your character's concept. But not everyone can or wants to go so deep on their own PC's.

Arelith is a PvP server, and no one can escape death. If anyone has a PC for any length of time (double so if you're evil) your likely going to be killed several times in the general area of places (double so if it's the Hub). It would be unfair to expect people to avoid an area past the 48 Hours just because they have died there.

However, if someone is not respecting Death, such as returning every 48 Hours to repeat the same crime under the idea "The Gods love me and will never let me stay dead forever!" that would be a clear DM report.

The above is just my personal take on the matter of course, and I am known for being wrong.

I don’t think your PC is at all any of the issues described here. I know you always RP with the confrontation and let your opposites have a bit of a chase when they put the effort in to dialogue with you.

I agree with the thought that we cannot forever avoid places our PCs have fallen, I think we are on the same wavelength there. There is certainly a difference between infrequent cautious visits to hostile settlements, and paying little to no regard to one’s own survival.

For what it’s worth I enjoy all my investigations and pursuits of Adelyn!

[Kalthariam]

I'm sorry, I disagree.

Having to tack on 30+ Minutes for specifically just travel doesn't really boost immersion. It's okay in a D&D tabletop game, because you don't have to sit through the dead time, you skip over the dead time and only get the highlights. (Such as being attacked or a random event)

That does not translate well into a game such as NWN.

Removing portals isn't going to liven up the world, it's going to make people congregate into hubs even more so, and probably just simply leave.

I've played on NWN servers that do not have means of fast travel, the roads were equally as dead, mostly because there just wasn't alot of people playing, and those that were playing were sitting in hub towns.

[Eyeliner]

Not to mention Arelith has so many "gotcha" areas like the Skal tundra where if you don't go up and down the maze of hills correctly you dead end and have to backtrack...

But you know what will happen if you remove portals.. The roads will be filled mostly with invisible hasted people.

[Edens_Fall]

You can do something about it though.

Think that even a level 1 grease scroll gets folks in fight mode and they wont be able to tp?

That’s just advocating opening PvP asap, which is not the aim. The issue is mostly that as soon as you move in to do confrontational RP, these people just wordlessly ‘uses item’, then vanishes a moment later. If we all did this, whenever we thought conflict might arise, this server would be very dull.

[quote=Morgy post_id=309215 time=<a href="tel:1665831749">1665831749</a> user_id=3876]
I'm not sure I follow why portals have anything to do with Potions of Attunement allowing easy escapes.

I wonder when these potions were designed, was it the intent for them to be used to often to escape pvp, rather than planar travel/exploration/experimentation? If not, perhaps they should be looked at as a matter of course.

On the topic of 'no fear of death', there is an observable issue of PCs doing the same thing over and over, in public spaces, then dying and repeating a day or two later. I don't mean that they are trolling, because they are in fact RPing, but it's madness doing the same thing and expecting to die again.

I currently play a very active anti-slaver, and wouldn't dream of sneaking around the Hub to only shop/loiter, when playing a PC that values his life. I think I've taken him to Andunor once in the last two months, and that was for a very specific mission.. simply because he doesn't want to be caught and tortured/killed. If I did risk this, and got caught over and over, that would be a very strange IC thing to do.

I think there's a difference between "No Fear of Death" and "Respect of Death". Players should be respecting Death, but that doesn't mean not returning to a location after you were KB there last week. The Hub would be a ghost town if that was a rule. Let's also not forget that most of us kill dragons at least once a week. Maybe even Mind Flayers or whatever other horrors. If such foes don't make one weep under a bed, never leaving the city walls, then why would visiting a surface town or the island's only open Trade Hub be the line in the sand?

NOTE: I'm not taking aim at your anti-slave PC. I knew your Underdark PC and understand how good your RP is. I think it's great you decided to take the hard line with your character's concept. But not everyone can or wants to go so deep on their own PC's.

Arelith is a PvP server, and no one can escape death. If anyone has a PC for any length of time (double so if you're evil) your likely going to be killed several times in the general area of places (double so if it's the Hub). It would be unfair to expect people to avoid an area past the 48 Hours just because they have died there.

However, if someone is not respecting Death, such as returning every 48 Hours to repeat the same crime under the idea "The Gods love me and will never let me stay dead forever!" that would be a clear DM report.

The above is just my personal take on the matter of course, and I am known for being wrong.

I don’t think your PC is at all any of the issues described here. I know you always RP with the confrontation and let your opposites have a bit of a chase when they put the effort in to dialogue with you.

I agree with the thought that we cannot forever avoid places our PCs have fallen, I think we are on the same wavelength there. There is certainly a difference between infrequent cautious visits to hostile settlements and paying little to no regard to one’s own survival.

For what it’s worth I enjoy all my investigations and pursuits of Adelyn!

Thank you for the kind words! It's nice to hear you have enjoyed our interactions as much as I have. While I wasn't meaning to use my current PC as a reference, I really haven't had any bad RP with her in quite some time. Most of the concerns were from PTSD on some past PCs that were more involved with faction conflict, etc.

But yes, I am totally on board with the current attunement potions needing some polish. The idea of a VFX effect added with it sending someone to a non-Tradepost protected area would be nice. At least that way those giving chase can pop a potion as well to continue the pursuit if they so choose. Plus the added danger of going from one conflict area into a possibly dangerous PvE area is enticing right?

[D4wN]

I can only hope it offers the same fun for those of the settlement as well. Though I can also understand why the other side would feel a loss should someone they find or track down manage to escape. Setting aside the very limited example of Vampire and paladin (which only one has ever let me go due to some rather impressive wordplay, not to brag, on my part) how often does meaningful RP come out of these confrontations? Before the recent rule changes, pickpockets (again a minor crime) if caught would be cut down in the city street. Same if someone found you in their home. Everything is PvP, as that's the only WIN that matters, which was kind of the point I was aiming at. So long as that is the end result, why would we get upset with those that flee a onesided battle or certain death? If a paladin was sent to Andunor on a mission and discovered would he surrender for RP or high tail it out of there to report back?

It's not so much about winning or losing in this scenario. It's more about the insta-escape that provides zero RP for the other side when people instantly chug a potion when there's a threat *they* sought out themselves. Imagine what it would feel like if it were the other way around and you had someone coming into your territory daily who shouldn't be there, gets to do all their bad/good things, but the moment they're discovered they no RP poof out of there. Not saying you do this. But I have seen it happen and I think that's really the crux of the problem. The near instant potion pop out of a hairy situation feels like a way to avoid consequences too easily. I agree with some of the ideas given. A visual effect at least, a way to block it like you can block a lens.

I just don't understand the problem. It's the interaction of these two sides that provide most of the RP on Arelith outside social events.

Because it doesn't. Instant no RP chugging a potion doesn't provide two side RP.

Why does it matter if the person you killed two days ago gets away this time? There will most likely be another chance to kill them again . . . and again.

It's not about being able to kill them or not. It's about them not showing any fear, trauma etc. from just having been killed and knowing it could very well happen again. Why would any sane person put themselves into a situation like this? I get it if you try again in a month, maybe even another two weeks. Or perhaps on the outskirts of a city/hub/town. Not right inside it though.

If it's a settlement issue, then exile them.

Exile is super easy to bypass. Bluff/Perform doesn't even need to be that high. It's hardly worth the resources half the time and still doesn't really address the fact you actively go into enemy territory time and time again even after being chased out, attacked, killed a hundred times.

I imagine seeing some escape with a potion after you found them is as frustrating as being sent to the fugue after a single-line body slam.

Absolutely. Neither which abides by the interactive RP rule.

[Arienette]

There are situations where people have used Attunement potions in ways that I found to be extremely annoying. For example, one time i found someone lurking in the guard barracks and they drank one as soon as I appeared.

However, as long as we are on the topic of respecting danger and death. I would much prefer people using some means of escape rather than just… getting killed for the same reason/in the same way over and over. That’s the worst.

The number of times I see the same people getting killed several times for the same reasons in the same places several IRL days apart is too damn high. Sometimes, it feels like around half of the PvP I participate in, see, or hear about is the same people getting themselves in the same sort of trouble over and over.

Better that they use an attunement potion IMO.

[D4wN]

There are situations where people have used Attunement potions in ways that I found to be extremely annoying. For example, one time i found someone lurking in the guard barracks and they drank one as soon as I appeared.

However, as long as we are on the topic of respecting danger and death. I would much prefer people using some means of escape rather than just… getting killed for the same reason/in the same way over and over. That’s the worst.

The number of times I see the same people getting killed several times for the same reasons in the same places several IRL days apart is too damn high. Sometimes, it feels like around half of the PvP I participate in, see, or hear about is the same people getting themselves in the same sort of trouble over and over.

Better that they use an attunement potion IMO.

But that's the problem then right? Why do these people continue to put themselves into these exact same situations over and over again expecting a different result? This is literally the definition of insanity. It should give the person perhaps a moment to consider to try another tactic for whatever they're trying to achieve. But if people keep getting killed for the same reason in the same place every time, then maybe they shouldn't be there and go elsewhere or try something else. Totally fine with people having means to escape. That's not in question here. Means of escape should still involve RP just as PVP should.

[Nobs]

Perhaps the better question is to ask why do some folks tp out with out a word or emote?

Did any one ever ask one of the insta teleport folks in a tell why they did it like that and if so what was their anser?

[Paint]

Sounds like the crux of the problem people are having here is that, intended use or otherwise, the Potion of Attunement enables people to RP around parties and impact them and their narrative without actually having to RP with them.

Which I tend to despise. But I do tend to hate anything that creates a whole RP for me but none for thee situation.

[D4wN]

Sounds like the crux of the problem people are having here is that, intended use or otherwise, the Potion of Attunement enables people to RP around parties and impact them and their narrative without actually having to RP with them.

Which I tend to despise. But I do tend to hate anything that creates a whole RP for me but none for thee situation.

From my perspective it is yes. I can't speak for others. At least with a lens or GSF Trans you can chase them for a bit. If they get away, they get away. And you get a notification that they're twisting a lens so you can try and stop them. With an attunement potion there's nothing.

[AnselHoenheim]

It is a problem from the potion of attunement, or a problem or ruling around the people that literally escape (using a lens, using a potion, or simply running away) without any kind of RP behind?

I don't feel that changing the potion of attunement to some kind of cooldown, or reaction, or even adding a possible place of danger at the other side would in reality change that mentallity, because the people who does this behavour would find another way to continue it.

[Rei_Jin]

I do wish we had spells available to us like Dimensional Anchor

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalAnchor.htm

Short summary? Level 4 spell for clerics and wizards/sorcs, ranged touch attack, no save, and it will block extra-dimensional travel for 1 minute per caster level

Being level 4, it could be put in a wand.

This means that sure, they can use an attunement potion or a portal lens to try to escape, but as soon as they do, you can try to counter them with your handy dandy wand.

[Sandrow]

I do wish we had spells available to us like Dimensional Anchor

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalAnchor.htm

Short summary? Level 4 spell for clerics and wizards/sorcs, ranged touch attack, no save, and it will block extra-dimensional travel for 1 minute per caster level

I also hate those who ward themselves while talking. And if I spend any second to speak back, them would gain some advantage for the possible pvp later. And if I just ward like the other player. It's foolish for RP, too. Thus I twisted a portal lens to leave the player there. And the player attacked me right away.

And it seems things would get worse.

[Edens_Fall]

I do wish we had spells available to us like Dimensional Anchor

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionalAnchor.htm

Short summary? Level 4 spell for clerics and wizards/sorcs, ranged touch attack, no save, and it will block extra-dimensional travel for 1 minute per caster level

I also hate those who ward themselves while talking. And if I spend any second to speak back, them would gain some advantage for the possible pvp later. And if I just ward like the other player. It's foolish for RP, too. Thus I twisted a portal lens to leave the player there. And the player attacked me right away.

And it seems things would get worse.

This one I let slide. A lot of the current builds have a wind-up time with spells, and generally, PvP involves one side jumping another that is not prepared anyway. In those cases, I would definitely try to slip a few wards if for no other reason than denying the attackers an easy kill. Make them work for it. Thus I don't really blame anyone for taking the chance to even the battlefield by casting wards or reapplying wards in a long conversation. We can all generally tell when something is going to end in PvP these days anyway.

The common counter many use is to simply view any warding as an attack. Let the other side know in advance that if they start casting anything, they will be attacked. My own personal favorite, however, is when one side demands the other REMOVE wards or die. If they refuse you attack.

[Sandrow]

This one I let slide. A lot of the current builds have a wind-up time with spells, and generally, PvP involves one side jumping another that is not prepared anyway. In those cases, I would definitely try to slip a few wards if for no other reason than denying the attackers an easy kill. Make them work for it. Thus I don't really blame anyone for taking the chance to even the battlefield by casting wards or reapplying wards in a long conversation. We can all generally tell when something is going to end in PvP these days anyway.

The common counter many use is to simply view any warding as an attack. Let the other side know in advance that if they start casting anything, they will be attacked. My own personal favorite, however, is when one side demands the other REMOVE wards or die. If they refuse you attack.

I'm not a native English user. It would cost me at least 30 seconds to speak such thing out. And with haste, it's about 10 buffs. I'm afraid I just can't do the same as you do without preset a button with these words.

[D4wN]

I also hate those who ward themselves while talking. And if I spend any second to speak back, them would gain some advantage for the possible pvp later. And if I just ward like the other player. It's foolish for RP, too. Thus I twisted a portal lens to leave the player there. And the player attacked me right away.

And it seems things would get worse.

I get what you're saying. It feels strange to have people begin to ward when you're trying to initiate interactive RP. To me this shows that there's been a recurring behavioural issue and perception that every conflict / opposite side / enemy interaction will result in PVP. If the other person/people are warding then they do that because they think they will be attacked and there will be PVP. Warding then has the opposite effect on the "hostile" team who then proceed to threaten the person to stop warding or instantly see it as a reason to attack.

It's sort of a catch 22 where the ones warding are actually the ones inviting PVP. I'm not saying that if you don't ward no PVP will happen, but 9/10 times PVP will definitely happen when you do ward. It's the same as twisting a lens or casting GSF Trans to instantly flee. People will react to that.

Personally I think there's nothing wrong with RPing fear or submission if you find yourself surrounded by people who are better prepared for a fight than you are and have caught you off guard. Some people think PVP or fleeing is the only option available to them. But there are many options, like negotiation for your life, pleading, giving them a gift, offer gold, offer information. Whatever. And you might even find not every person always wants to resort to PVP to end a conflict. You'll absolutely be disappointed many times, but sometimes you might be surprised and your tense interaction might even create some cool follow up story / plot.

It has to do with trust and trust to me is clearly lacking currently in the community. So yes! I agree. It's a foolish way to RP, but I also get why people do it.

[Amateur Hour]

I get what you're saying. It feels strange to have people begin to ward when you're trying to initiate interactive RP. To me this shows that there's been a recurring behavioural issue and perception that every conflict / opposite side / enemy interaction will result in PVP.

...

Personally I think there's nothing wrong with RPing fear or submission if you find yourself surrounded by people who are better prepared for a fight than you are and have caught you off guard. Some people think PVP or fleeing is the only option available to them. But there are many options, like negotiation for your life, pleading, giving them a gift, offer gold, offer information. Whatever. And you might even find not every person always wants to resort to PVP to end a conflict.

Something I've noticed in my own decision-making process when surrounded (which, granted, has been fairly rare) is that, while my character might see pleading for their life as being the obvious way to deal with that situation, they also have tangible reason to fear the consequences from their compatriots for having not chosen to die rather than give something of value to the enemy. And seeing as a lot of fanatical movements over the course of history have hammered it into their adherents' heads that "it is better to die than to cave," it's even justifiable...but it's not an in-character attitude that fosters a rich RP environment on the meta level.

I'm not sure if there's a way to really fix this on a server level, but I think that it's worthwhile for people to seriously consider if they're giving their characters traits or allowing their characters to develop in ways that are going to destroy RP opportunities for themselves or others.

...and to bring it back on topic, I don't think attunement potions are too good. Because when there are magical options to run away, people are going to be more willing to take the risk to RP than they would otherwise.

[Edens_Fall]

This one I let slide. A lot of the current builds have a wind-up time with spells, and generally, PvP involves one side jumping another that is not prepared anyway. In those cases, I would definitely try to slip a few wards if for no other reason than denying the attackers an easy kill. Make them work for it. Thus I don't really blame anyone for taking the chance to even the battlefield by casting wards or reapplying wards in a long conversation. We can all generally tell when something is going to end in PvP these days anyway.

The common counter many use is to simply view any warding as an attack. Let the other side know in advance that if they start casting anything, they will be attacked. My own personal favorite, however, is when one side demands the other REMOVE wards or die. If they refuse you attack.

I'm not a native English user. It would cost me at least 30 seconds to speak such thing out. And with haste, it's about 10 buffs. I'm afraid I just can't do the same as you do without preset a button with these words.

Totally understandable. In such a case I would defiantly use a hot bar text macro with something premade like, "Stop! I just want to talk, but if you flee or Ward then I'll be forced to attack." or something. If they stop and RP great! If they flee, well it's still a win, and if they fight at least you got your bases covered under the rules. That or even shoot an OOC text before engaging if time allows to let them know your typing speed isn't great. Will it work every time? No, but its better than nothing.