New AP / Award Changes Feedback

[Ruzuke]

I said it in the sentence and will repeat it again.

Your math said a roll could result in 9k for a normal a normal award is 100,000 AP which equals 11,111 rolls.

Your math as a positive of what could be done in a single month on average now takes three months.

Yes, it is both correct and relevant. It is just not coinvent for your argument.

Edit: As for the 36k a month it is the equivalent of working a part time job each week of 15 hours a week.

That completely ignores that you also get the majority of points for play time now (which you have to roll to access). It has nothing to do with being convenient for my argument or not.

You were usually getting 1 normal every 2 months as it was if you were going through characters that quickly (or had a lot left over). Yes, you probably didn't need to play 135 ish hours to get that normal if your only concern was getting to 26 as fast as possible, but you also couldn't combine those normals into greater or major rewards either. The overall design goal was to remove some of the roll bait style characters (i.e. play characters for a bit longer), remove the 'lootbox' (i.e. less payoff for the actual roll), add certainty to the system (you can eventually earn what you want to play), and reward time invested in the characters (i.e. get AP for playing). I think it accomplished those goals.

People who weren't rolling every 2 months are also much better off than they were before. They can still get rewarded when they finally do roll those characters (and generate passive points as well) instead of just that 1 normal they probably got for the 1 year old character.

No system is going to make everyone happy (some people are going to prefer lootboxes/gambling), but figuring out the overall goals of the award system and designing it to meet those is usually the best approach.

I'm not sure why you're phrasing it as a part-time job instead of calling it a hobby. You could certainly get a job instead of playing Arelith in the past, too.

Because 15 hours a week is what is classified as a part time job. The true time is longer than that as idling doesn't count. Part of a larger scene / meeting. Don't wait and listen be sure to keep typing hmm... or side conversations in whispers so you can collect the AP. Getting up to go to the WC, get a beverage, speak to a family member? No AP time.

Any person who players casually is going to have that problem as the will not be spending 15 hours of active time per week to make those 60 hours per month. The calculation of people gaining 36k a month remains flawed. A very small minority will get that leveraged by those with RPR of 30, 40, or 50 who needs less RP to get to the cap quicker.

You calculation called for rolling every 3 months for that bonus 9k AP to get to that normal. So instead of your every 2-month roll, a personal rolls every three months for a normal?

You are right no system is going to please everyone, and some people prefer systems that caters to the small minority that spends all their time on the game. Others just want steady progression and a fair playing field for a hobby and not pick-up part-time job hours to play a shiny thing.

Full disclosure: I have 6 greater 1 major, and with this new system I have another major as I was sitting on 2 graters The changed benefited me. I can continue to sit around and RP an alt rather than level the character up. Before timer rolls I tended to play characters for six months. This doesn't mean I don't see the pain points even if they do not personally affect me.

[zeroth777]

I think it is the right direction, but I suggest increasing the ap to 50% for level 30 characters , there are folks who do not wish to roll, and some iconic characters will have a new lease of life again, because the players are rewarded for playing them.

So when u level to 30, the ap for playing and added will be increased to 50% , 50% stored when u rolled and 50% passive contributed to monthly play to ur account.

Make sense right?

[Ruzuke]

One of the large benefits is it does potentially allow Greater and Major award characters to use remake due to a flaw in their build, change in the game, or perhaps even due to character growth. The character could earn enough AP to do recreate the character.

[Zaon]

ok so first things first I appreciate admin team for thinking about this problem and coming up with a thought out solution. I also know no one on the team is getting paid and fundamentally, no one here owes anyone anything.

BUT with the sharp-turn decisions like these, is it a bad idea to give the community a headsup? I really dislike how this just fell from the sky, and it's "we're doing this now, period."

Would a grace period to let players "bring their affairs in order" be a bad thing?

I don't have 2 hours per day to RP for an award. Is it wrong to give me even like an HOUR notice so I can roll my char with the previous system.

Again, I know that nobody owes anybody anything here, least of all the team who consistently gives out their free time to bring us this wonderful Arelith experience..

But I think its a little bit inconsiderate to be turning everything upside down in a blink of an eye.

[Xerah]

Because 15 hours a week is what is classified as a part time job.

It's also what people spend on a hobby.

You calculation called for rolling every 3 months for that bonus 9k AP to get to that normal. So instead of your every 2-month roll, a personal rolls every three months for a normal?

No, 2 months and 15 hr in the next month (which could be 1 day if they wanted to play that much). 135hr of play time over at minimum of 2 months and 1 day seemed to be the amount of time to get 100k.

Any person who players casually is going to have that problem as the will not be spending 15 hours of active time per week to make those 60 hours per month. The calculation of people gaining 36k a month remains flawed.

36k is a maximum and it's used to illustrate the maximum from the other system. You're not required to reach the maximum. I'm not sure I've been playing 60hr a month or not (I suspect not).

I'm not sure I quite understand this casual player you've created that you're advocating for. They were not playing very much, yet they were rolling a new level 26+ character every 2 months? Now, it's a part-time job to get involved in the award system? You'll have to excuse me if I think this type of player is extremely unlikely. More likely is that the casual player is playing for longer than 2 months and therefore playing a lot longer than those 135hr before moving on and rolling that character.

I don't see any point in engaging with you further on this, so I will be disengaging.

[PowerWord Rage]

60 hours a month isn't all that extreme though.
Considering that we have 30days a month and that's 720 hours.
that's not even 10% of our time per month and frankly...we like to spend time on things that we like so, i don't believe that anyone will only /just/ spend 10% of your time on things that you like?

edit: sorry i didn't read about the part time job stuff above written. But i don't believe that we play the game linearly. such that for myself, sometimes i don't even login the entire day but sometimes, i actually login for more than 8 hours.
Now, that's what a game is. We play because we like to play and how long we play, depends on how we are feeling.
I doubt that anyone playing this game feels like, it's a job? Sorry, it doesn't really cross my mind at all.

[Xerah]

BUT with the sharp-turn decisions like these, is it a bad idea to give the community a headsup? I really dislike how this just fell from the sky, and it's "we're doing this now, period."

This has been talked about by the admins for years at this point (there were some people in Discord who changed their name to something akin to "away_until_award_changes"). The design goals of the new award system were also talked about, with the main one being that time investment in a character should have value. This and the dweomercraft system changes have been the two big changes which we knew were coming eventually.

[PowerWord Rage]

There really isn't anything to give heads up about for this change to award since i believed that everyone is already under award cooldown, considering that just few days or weeks ago, the timer were refreshed and whoever can roll, had already rolled.
( i belong to those that didn't roll since i don't have any characters to roll, i'm over with making char just to roll )

So...all of us are or i can say 90% of us are under award cooldown...when it changes actually does not matter.
What matters here is the formula that has changed which is still being looked at ( admin has already said so )
I believe that everything looks good here? at least 80% ( majority of the posters ) are agreeable that the change is a good direction after all.

[Zaon]

BUT with the sharp-turn decisions like these, is it a bad idea to give the community a headsup? I really dislike how this just fell from the sky, and it's "we're doing this now, period."

This has been talked about by the admins for years at this point (there were some people in Discord who changed their name to something akin to "away_until_award_changes"). The design goals of the new award system were also talked about, with the main one being that time investment in a character should have value. This and the dweomercraft system changes have been the two big changes which we knew were coming eventually.

Not valid comparison at all. Dweomer system rework has seen multiple announcements made on it by officials in the announcement channel.

The “discussion” on award system change has been limited to a few stray thoughts sprinkled here and there and a massive butthurt by people who “feel” statistics declared personal vendetta against them.

If you like having a job of playing a game / or have a truck load of time to devote to arelith, good for you. I don’t and many people don’t either.

This is beside the point. I’m talking about how the rug was pulled from under me. I was level 21 and I would have rather rolled at a diminished chance but a chance nonetheless. Instead now I have to clock in for the arelith shift.

I know YOU personally likely couldn’t care less, because you got what, 4 majors in two years? Good to know you’re ok and fine with people earning just one in that same amount of time now, having to log in every day.

Also yeah I know “you don’t have to login if you don’t like it” just spare me that line please, very insulting.

P.S. also, did you really just imply I am to track r what the people change their discord names to, in order to glean info on serious policy changes??

[Zaon]

There really isn't anything to give heads up about for this change to award since i believed that everyone is already under award cooldown, considering that just few days or weeks ago, the timer were refreshed and whoever can roll, had already rolled.
( i belong to those that didn't roll since i don't have any characters to roll, i'm over with making char just to roll )

So...all of us are or i can say 90% of us are under award cooldown...when it changes actually does not matter.
What matters here is the formula that has changed which is still being looked at ( admin has already said so )
I believe that everything looks good here? at least 80% ( majority of the posters ) are agreeable that the change is a good direction after all.

No, it’s not okay, because providing a cordial notice in advance is by definition more considerate than pulling a rug from under you. And I don’t know where you’re pulling “90% of us are under cooldown anyway” number from.

Like I said, I’d roll my 21lvl I was hoping to get to 26 in a heartbeat, or even 16th lvl, but being slapped with this system has me really worked up

[chris a gogo]

Doesn't do me any favors.
Im down to 2 hours a day if im lucky due to RL issues, means i will pretty much never be earning enough to get the top awards.

That said im not opposed to the new system, so long as the prices aren't constant changed then i can work within the system to get what i want, trouble is i really don't trust that to happen.

[In Sorrow We Trust]

i've been playing since Jj's administration and was never able to get a major through the RNG system.

this is a good change. just the concerns from above left to address.

[PowerWord Rage]

There really isn't anything to give heads up about for this change to award since i believed that everyone is already under award cooldown, considering that just few days or weeks ago, the timer were refreshed and whoever can roll, had already rolled.
( i belong to those that didn't roll since i don't have any characters to roll, i'm over with making char just to roll )

So...all of us are or i can say 90% of us are under award cooldown...when it changes actually does not matter.
What matters here is the formula that has changed which is still being looked at ( admin has already said so )
I believe that everything looks good here? at least 80% ( majority of the posters ) are agreeable that the change is a good direction after all.

No, it’s not okay, because providing a cordial notice in advance is by definition more considerate than pulling a rug from under you. And I don’t know where you’re pulling “90% of us are under cooldown anyway” number from.

Like I said, I’d roll my 21lvl I was hoping to get to 26 in a heartbeat, or even 16th lvl, but being slapped with this system has me really worked up

I believe this is the point here that the server is trying to address. getting rid of making characters to roll, just to roll.
If you're making this character just for it to be rolled...i think this now being addressed? no?
The purpose of this new system is believed to be addressing making characters just to roll it.
And tbh, the cooldown thing is around for probably a year already? The impact isn't all that great unless you are banking of that 5% - 10% luck to get major and this change forfeit your chance, at least to try.
I understand that part and will extend my condolence to you.

[Zaon]

There really isn't anything to give heads up about for this change to award since i believed that everyone is already under award cooldown, considering that just few days or weeks ago, the timer were refreshed and whoever can roll, had already rolled.
( i belong to those that didn't roll since i don't have any characters to roll, i'm over with making char just to roll )

So...all of us are or i can say 90% of us are under award cooldown...when it changes actually does not matter.
What matters here is the formula that has changed which is still being looked at ( admin has already said so )
I believe that everything looks good here? at least 80% ( majority of the posters ) are agreeable that the change is a good direction after all.

No, it’s not okay, because providing a cordial notice in advance is by definition more considerate than pulling a rug from under you. And I don’t know where you’re pulling “90% of us are under cooldown anyway” number from.

Like I said, I’d roll my 21lvl I was hoping to get to 26 in a heartbeat, or even 16th lvl, but being slapped with this system has me really worked up

I believe this is the point here that the server is trying to address. getting rid of making characters to roll, just to roll.
If you're making this character just for it to be rolled...i think this now being addressed? no?

I am not against this system. I like it. But the door has been shut on me. I can’t jump ship now. I invested my time and efffort to get to lvl 21 and 700k gold with an idea of rolling.

Now this has been denied me. My time has been taken away. I only wanted a way out. That too much to ask?

[PowerWord Rage]

Totally understand your feeling there bro. Had the announcement been given at least 2 days in advance and those who had not rolled, are given the chance to try, it will be great.
Alas, it just does not happen. I get your picture and under this basis of logic, i agree that the change does happened abruptly.

[Zaon]

Totally understand your feeling there bro. Had the announcement been given at least 2 days in advance and those who had not rolled, are given the chance to try, it will be great.
Alas, it just does not happen. I get your picture and under this basis of logic, i agree that the change does happened abruptly.

Thank you, your understanding means a lot to me

[Xerah]

Not valid comparison at all. Dweomer system rework has seen multiple announcements made on it by officials in the announcement channel.

The “discussion” on award system change has been limited to a few stray thoughts sprinkled here and there and a massive butthurt by people who “feel” statistics declared personal vendetta against them.

It's true that you might not have heard about it, but it was a common discussion mentioned in Discord. On the Forums. And in the town hall question periods that have sometimes occurred. It's not plastered everywhere, no, but it was a big thing that was fairly well known was changing. It's possible you didn't hear it about.

No one is "butthurt" by statistics. People do dislike loot boxes, even if they win a lot from them.

I know YOU personally likely couldn’t care less, because you got what, 4 majors in two years? Good to know you’re ok and fine with people earning just one in that same amount of time now, having to log in every day.

No, I got 1 major reward in the 8 years I've been rolling characters. That character wasn't even played that long and still sits in my vault (it's only level 20).

Also yeah I know “you don’t have to login if you don’t like it” just spare me that line please, very insulting.

No one said that. You're writing your own narrative here and in several places.

P.S. also, did you really just imply I am to track r what the people change their discord names to, in order to glean info on serious policy changes??

I didn't imply that at all. It was one example of how people knew the change was coming.

[Zaon]

Not valid comparison at all. Dweomer system rework has seen multiple announcements made on it by officials in the announcement channel.

The “discussion” on award system change has been limited to a few stray thoughts sprinkled here and there and a massive butthurt by people who “feel” statistics declared personal vendetta against them.

It's true that you might not have heard about it, but it was a common discussion mentioned in Discord. On the Forums. And in the town hall question periods that have sometimes occurred. It's not plastered everywhere, no, but it was a big thing that was fairly well known was changing. It's possible you didn't hear it about.

No one is "butthurt" by statistics. People do dislike loot boxes, even if they win a lot from them.

I know YOU personally likely couldn’t care less, because you got what, 4 majors in two years? Good to know you’re ok and fine with people earning just one in that same amount of time now, having to log in every day.

No, I got 1 major reward in the 8 years I've been rolling characters. That character wasn't even played that long and still sits in my vault (it's only level 20).

Also yeah I know “you don’t have to login if you don’t like it” just spare me that line please, very insulting.

No one said that. You're writing your own narrative here and in several places.

P.S. also, did you really just imply I am to track r what the people change their discord names to, in order to glean info on serious policy changes??

I didn't imply that at all. It was one example of how people knew the change was coming.

My point stands, I only wanted a way out. If you think I don’t deserve that, nothing I say can change your mind.

[Iceborn]

Just to offer some clarity:
The award overhaul project was originally drafted about... 5 years or so ago, in a very different format. I picked it up as one of my projects last year, about within the same month as I joined the dev team, but the project was shelved after a few months due to fundamental disagreements on implementation. As far as the dev team knew, the project was in limbo and no one was actively working on it - only the admins and a few contributors were made aware I picked it up again, and practically nobody knew it was getting implemented until the day of release.

We considered a heads up to allow players to make an informed decision - of whether to roll their current characters or keep them to turn into legacy points - but we ultimately decided to release the update without warning. This was both as a matter of fairness and equality, and because we wanted to move away from the old system as quickly as possible.

We are fully aware this system is a massive departure from the previous method of earning awards, but this aligns with the intended goal of how awards are valued. They are a symbol of long standing and permanence that is meant to award precisely long-time players.

As we said many times, the numbers will be adjusted. The current prices may err on too high to avoid a flood of major awards (which we are seeing nonetheless, as many players, predictably, had about 8 normals stored in their account).

We are also aware that more casual and new players may be particularly negatively affected by the changes and the perception of 'how far' they are to earn their goal awards.

I don't think most minors really cost a whole month of playtime - these are things that should be attainable with a week of playtime at most, nor are all majors and greaters equal - vampires should definitely remain a rare luxury, but the RDD token is probably not worth a full 800.000 amount.

That is ultimately a thing for the admins to discuss and decide, of course, and as always, things move slowly in development, so all I can do is advise people to be patient.

[PowerWord Rage]

I think, it simply meant that the team does not want to encourage the possibility of having more major awards than this update is already going to give. Therefore, it's released with no forewarning. While it's ultimately borders between fairness and equality ( they are not the same ), it's a hard decision to make which needs and hopefully players to understand and move on together.

Yea...those on the short end of the stick does have the right to be upset and I think it's pretty reasonable. Though, dev and admin probably look at these matters from another point of view which is, frankly what many speaks about, afraid of Arelith zoo ( I think ? )

As someone who is fortunate to have major awards before and playing one, I am a bad example to be saying these but just that I hope everyone can move on together and enjoy this game as what it always are and still is, RP server.

[D4wN]

I love the new system. As someone who just simply doesn't play a lot of alts or have the OOC friends (or will) to grind roll characters, it gives me the same opportunity to get a major as everyone else. It's much more fair and if it takes a little longer? I can live with that. Making roll characters simply to get awards feels way too mechanical of a process anyway, where now there is no reason to make a roll character that has 0 impact on the world and vanishes randomly once they hit the right cap to be rolled.

RPR is another topic all together and personally I feel it adds nothing to this game but resentment, 'elitism' and accusations of favouritism. In my humble opinion it does more damage than good. I definitely don't think it should be tied to the award system.

As for DMs not handing out RPR and applying for it, a lot of people would probably lack confidence or self esteem to actually apply for RPR themselves, not to mention the fear if you believe yourself worthy only for DMs to stomp on your confidence by rejecting it. If you're going to put a "reward" system like this in based on "RP quality" and how you, as a player, position yourself in the community and meet all the criteria laid out on the wiki, then it should be more actively managed by the DMs. They are supposed to judge whether we meet the criteria, then they should be the ones to identify those who would qualify. A little nudge from the community to push someone forward and make the team aware of a potential through recommendations is of course very helpful. Especially since every recommendation is logged and you can just pull a report on it to analyse the numbers. Occasional reminders to the community that -recommend exists could be helpful too.

I would honestly believe removing the RPR system and coming up with another (smaller) way to reward people for being inclusive, creating RP/stories and having the right attitude is the way to go. I mean, you have no idea how much it even means to the average player to just get a compliment from a DM.

[Dachlatte]

I really like to thank you for the Award System overhaul, much appreciated.

I do hope this will fix the Character Mayfly Annoyance and that we will see a lot less introduction sentences like:

Hello, are you here for writ or treasure?

[98lbs of sad carryweight]

Oh yeah system is cool moving forward, but I still feel 100% robbed and disrespected for no particular gain at all.
But that's just Arelith sometimes.

With how legacy points work I genuinely want to ask: Why punish people with a cap, but allow legacy points to just benefit? If I had known there was a cap I wouldn't have rolled so many characters. Made me waste thousands of hours that I could've focused on a few characters more, rather than try to chase the awards I wanted.

I really beg the devs to reconsider :/ Especially if legacy points just get paid out, I rolled my old chars assuming I wouldn't just lose the awards I gain with them on a whimsy.

Rolling was a mistake.
Not banking them in characters was a mistake.
Rolling characters so new chars can take the spotlight? Mistake.
Following the rules and systems as intended? A mistake.

Really good to keep in mind in the future really. Don't engage in good faith.

[Dreams]

I think a possible addition to consider is adding a % of gold value on the character (or just gold) to the points gained, even if only partial points.

Right now there’s zero reason why a person would roll a character with all of their gold and items on them unless it’s for the sacrifice roll. For partial refund characters, they’re very likely to drop all their gold and items on a friend before vanishing.

Adding an incentive to keep the stuff, even if it’s only a small one, ends up removing these things from the game over time so it impacts other players less.

[Kalthariam]

Are people genuinely upset that the old award system is gone?

I genuinely cannot fathom this mindset. The old award system was not good by any measure. This is just flat out better.

I guess the old saying that on the internet someone can argue about anything is true.