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Yeah that's what I'm saying. If you are planning a non-human Spellsword, you can skip on taking Still Spell in the Greensteel builds because you only have to deal with it for a little while.Wytchee wrote:Make scrolls. I managed just fine.Maladus wrote:For non-human builds, dropping that feat and dealing with the annoyance may be worth it.
With 24 levels of Spellsword, it's a 1 AC difference from going shield-less. (As long as you're using a 1H weapon and the off-hand is free).Ozzy.nl wrote:The auto still spell strength build. How much would the difference be with and without a towers hield?
What do you think of slapping bard or rogue levels in at the end of that build for UMD, tumble, and ward usage that bards have? Would it be worth it?yellowcateyes wrote:With 24 levels of Spellsword, it's a 1 AC difference from going shield-less. (As long as you're using a 1H weapon and the off-hand is free).Ozzy.nl wrote:The auto still spell strength build. How much would the difference be with and without a towers hield?
The Addy Tower shield also adds 10% DI against a very common physical damage type, so that's another reason to use it on top of the extra AC.
If you're looking to add Bard, you're likely better off using the Greensteel build and skipping Auto-Still. The Auto-Still I-III build is configured the way it is because getting all three of those feats, and EMA, is a tight fit that requires at least two bonus wizard feats occurring in a specific level range.liver and bones wrote:What do you think of slapping bard or rogue levels in at the end of that build for UMD, tumble, and ward usage that bards have? Would it be worth it?
The same as normal with +2 int and +2 dex, without any STR or CON gifts ontop. And I would drop still spell if you want to use greensteel, yeah.Maladus wrote:If one wanted to use the 23S/4F/3B Greensteel build but adapt it to a Drow (Gift of Melee-Magthere) what would the ideal stats spread look like? For this I would consider dropping Still Spell to pick up Expertise at 3 to make up for not having the bonus feat at level 1. Also, what do you guys recommend for the school to drop?
Spellswords still get Scribe Scroll like a normal wizard. Weapons can be imbued from both scrolls and wands.Maladus wrote:I know this has probably been answered somewhere, but the threads are a little all over the place and the wiki does t state it directly, can you Spellswords make scrolls and then imbue their weapons from the scrolls?
It depends on where the bug occurs in the code, but I would expect it would work.Astral wrote:Probably not. But if you cast a maximized spell on yourself and then use a wand on the weapon, there's a legit chance the imbued spell will count as 3 circles higher because of nwn known bug.
Pretty sure it's not considered one here but idkBaron Saturday wrote:Apologies if that's considered an exploit, previous times the topic came up I was told that it wasn't.
yellowcateyes wrote:Here are some sample Spellsword builds using the new rules. If you can spot any errors or see ways they can be improved, don't hesitate to point them out.
DEX-Based:
27 Spellsword / 3 Bard
Full Build - https://pastebin.com/JA43JHP8
AC = 61, 71 in IE [10 + 13 DEX + 5 INT Shield + 20 EMA + 4 Haste + 1 Boots + 6 Tumble +2 Armor Skin]
AB = 42, 44 with GMW [15 BAB + 7 Spellsword AB + 13 DEX + 3 Focus + 3 Weapon + 1 Prowess]
HP = 420
Damage = [Weapon + Essence] + 2 STR + 11 INT
Caster Level: 27, 30 vs Dispels
Misc: Ease of leveling due to full caster progression from 1-20.
23 Spellsword / 4 Fighter / 3 Rogue
Full Build - https://pastebin.com/cBmPYkw6
AC = 60, 70 in IE [10 + 13 DEX + 4 INT Shield + 20 EMA + 4 Haste + 1 Boots + 6 Tumble +2 Armor Skin]
AB = 41, 43 with GMW [16 BAB + 6 Spellsword AB + 13 DEX + 3 Focus + 3 Weapon]
HP = 436
Damage = [Weapon + Essence] + 2 STR + 11 INT + 6 Weapon Spec
Caster Level = 23, 26 vs Dispels (28 with Arcane Defense: Abjuration)
Misc: 2 Free Pre-Epic Feats
24 Spellsword / 6 Fighter
Full Build - https://pastebin.com/c5a7bpfP
AC = 58, 68 in IE [10 + 13 DEX + 5 INT Shield + 20 EMA + 4 Haste + 1 Boots+ 3 CC'd Tumble + 2 Armor Skin]
AB = 43, 45 with GMW [17 BAB + 6 Spellsword AB + 13 DEX + 3 Focus + 3 Weapon + 1 Prowess]
HP = 444
Damage = [Weapon + Essence] + 2 STR + 11 INT + 6 Weapon Spec
Caster Level = 24, 27 vs Dispels (29 with Arcane Defense: Abjuration)
Misc: 2 Free Pre-Epic Feats, no UMD
23 Spellsword / 7 Weapon Master
Full Build - https://pastebin.com/Js6EadEe
AC = 57, 62 in Expertise [10 + 13 DEX + 4 INT Shield + 20 EMA + 4 Haste + 1 Boots + 3 CC'd Tumble + 2 Armor Skin]
AB = 43, 45 w/ GMW [16 BAB + 6 Spellsword AB + 13 Dex + 3 Focus + 3 Weapon + 1 Prowess + 1 WM]
HP = 448
Damage = [Weapon + Essence] + 3 STR + 11 INT ( x WM multiplier & crit Range)
Caster Level = 23, 26 vs Dispels, (25 vs SR w/ Spell Pen)
Misc: Tight feats means no KD, normal Expertise. No GSF Abj or UMD.
Warning! WM builds included as a point of comparison. Use at your own risk.
---
STR-Based:
24 Spellsword / 6 Fighter [Full Auto-Still Plate Armor Build]
Full Build: https://pastebin.com/sCx4FbH8
AC = 55, 65 in IE [10 + 1 DEX + 20 EMA + 4 Haste + 1 Boots + 3 CC'd Tumble + 2 Armor Skin + 8 Plate Mail + 6 Addy Tower Shield]
AB = 42, 44 with GMW [17 BAB + 6 Spellsword AB + 13 STR + 3 Focus + 3 Weapon]
HP = 474
Damage: [Weapon + Essence] + 13 STR + 11 INT + 6 Weapon Spec
Caster Level = 24, 27 vs Dispels (29 with Arcane Defense: Abjuration)
Misc: 1 Free Pre-Epic Feat (2 if dropping Toughness), no UMD. Auto-Still Spell enables full armored casting.
Note! - Going 2H Weapon is an option. Pre-IE AC drops to 50, and your AB without GMW improves to 44.
23 Spellsword / 4 Fighter / 3 Bard [Greensteel Build, no Auto-Still]
Full Build: https://pastebin.com/fNE72423
AC = 54, 64 in IE [10 + 2 DEX + 20 EMA + 4 Haste + 1 Boots + 6 Tumble + 2 Armor Skin + 5 Breastplate + 4 Empty Offhand INT AC]
AB = 42, 44 with GMW [16 BAB + 6 Spellsword AB + 14 STR + 3 Focus + 3 Weapon (or 5 GMW)]
HP = 444 (474 w/ Toughness)
Damage: [Weapon + Essence] +14 STR + 11 INT + 6 Weapon Spec
Caster Level = 23, 28 vs Dispels
Misc: Access to UMD, Taunt
27 Spellsword / 3 Bard [Greensteel Build, no Auto-Still]
Full Build: https://pastebin.com/TBn8LczJ
AC = 55, 65 in IE [10 + 2 DEX + 20 EMA + 4 Haste + 1 Boots + 6 Tumble + 2 Armor Skin + 5 Breastplate + 5 Empty Offhand INT AC]
AB = 43, 45 with GMW [15 BAB + 7 Spellsword AB + 14 STR + 3 Focus + 1 Prowess + 3 Weapon (or 5 GMW)]
HP = 420
Damage: [Weapon + Essence] +14 STR + 11 INT
Caster Level = 27, 30 vs Dispels
Misc: Access to UMD, Taunt.
Notes:
- Given contributor comments regarding Tenser's and Divine Power usage by Spellswords, I did not build with either of these two spells in mind. Stat and level spreads can be optimized further by making use of their effects, but such builds may end up SOL if the spells are indeed changed.
- Stat spreads assume a near-minimum base INT to qualify for circle 9 spellcasting, with the rest of stat progression going into melee attributes. Going heavier into INT would drop the spellsword's AB to high 30s, and getting appropriate epic spell school focii would involve sacrificing melee feats. At that point, you're likely better off making a Wild Mage.
Bard was suggested over rogue because it gives access to Taunt, which helps the Spellsword against high AC opponents. Evasion also has reduced value since the Spellsword, being based on the Wizard class, tends to have low Reflex. Additionally, craftable bard harps are rather useful.Spaniardl wrote:Why bard instead of rogue?
ESF Discipline is necessary for the DEX builds. It is still useful for the STR build since Truestrike potions are frequently combined with knockdown attempts. Even without Truestrike, there are many ways for a high BAB build to buff AB even further. (Like, for example, wielding any two-handed weapon). ESF Discipline is generally a solid pick for anyone that plans to get within melee range.Spaniardl wrote:Do builds on this server typically need epic skill focus discipline? What about for a STR Based spellsword?
Spaniardl wrote:If you take 23 wiz, and get GSF Abj and arcane def abj, is your effective caster level 27 and 29 vs dispels?
Spaniardl wrote:Do you think these builds need more fort? I think epic fort may be helpful. Not sure if i will have enough spell mantles vs high level casters.
You are correct, it doesn't.Spaniardl wrote:Does bard add to the caster level? I'm pretty sure it doesnt.
Yes, that's how it works.Spaniardl wrote:so arcane defense abj gives the 'defender' a +2 caster level versus the dispel by the caster... right? i know.. very confusing language here.
So if i am 20 wiz, and get arcane def abj, my buffs count as casted by a 22 wiz vs dispel, right?
Spellswords do get +1 Discipline every three levels. It's not much, but it helps.Spaniardl wrote:Also, I am kinda leaning towards taking the fighter levels because... not having any good discipline for a long time sounds... not fun. easy to beat until i get to level 27.... too long to wait in my mind, since i actualy have not even gotten any character that high on this server.
I highly recommend 3 fighter lvls early on. Helped me a bunch and it didn't set me back too far behind in terms of mage progression.Spaniardl wrote:Also, I am kinda leaning towards taking the fighter levels because... not having any good discipline for a long time sounds... not fun. easy to beat until i get to level 27.... too long to wait in my mind, since i actualy have not even gotten any character that high on this server.
