Arelith

A full and optimized epic caster is everyone's foil, not just spellswords. That's not a fair comparison.

TimeAdept wrote:A full and optimized epic caster is everyone's foil, not just spellswords. That's not a fair comparison.

The / was meant to = or, not and. Obviously, its hard to do both since full casting classes (i.e. 9th lvl spells) don't have discipline, so...

Moreover, even optimized casters are going down to all sorts of things these days. For a short while now, we have been living in the era where DPS is king. If you still hold true to the above, we just must be playing on different corners of the server.

Thanatosis wrote:

BegoneThoth wrote:It's the best class for both mechanical power and raw RP prowess.

Would like to see tier lists of RP builds

What builds give the best RP? Do fighters need RP buffs???????? This is a whole new angle of meta-scale we've never looked at before

You can do anything you want, you can fit anywhere. You have enough martial prowess to hang with the best fighters around, while also having access to level nine Arcane spells. There really isn't anything you can't do, where is a mage may have to admit that their lousy at melee, or a fighter might have to lack a basic understanding of even the most basic Arcane formula, a spellsword has neither of these problems.

I don't really think there's too much in the game like that.

BegoneThoth wrote: You can do anything you want, you can fit anywhere. You have enough martial prowess to hang with the best fighters around, while also having access to level nine Arcane spells. There really isn't anything you can't do, where is a mage may have to admit that their lousy at melee, or a fighter might have to lack a basic understanding of even the most basic Arcane formula, a spellsword has neither of these problems.

I don't really think there's too much in the game like that.

Have you seen a 30th lvl Mage's Tenser's? (Or even a 26/4 or a 27/3?) Put that alongside an ancient elemental or in some cases even a monolith? They can all fight...if they want to. Not using that spell is an RP choice. Keep in mind, a regular old magus can do this AND drop a hell ball on you...all at the same time.

I agree that some minor functions of spellswords may need tweaked, I would especially look at the synergy with monk, the DCs in some cases, and the imbues firing per flurry. But I do think some of this thread is an over-reaction to the shiny new thing.

It's just my opinion. I feel that maximum spell power should not go to any fighter-y character w/o serious drawbacks. Otherwise it diminishes both.

Sort of a core philosophy belief I have in terms of game balance. "Try to not obsolete things."

BegoneThoth wrote:It's just my opinion. I feel that maximum spell power should not go to any fighter-y character w/o serious drawbacks. Otherwise it diminishes both.

Sort of a core philosophy belief I have in terms of game balance. "Try to not obsolete things."

So...clerics then?

You hit the nail on the head. Not only does the SS 'hybrid' class encroach severely on pure builds, it utterly obsoletes cleric and battle cleric.

Why play a cleric when a spellsword is the same playstyle, but better in every possible way? They get things clerics wish they could, so much free stuff and more potent spells.

we get it you hate spellswords. They're being looked at. Problem solved. Saying how OP they are over and over again isn't going to somehow make the devs work faster any more than complaining about horses did.

Yeah you're right. I go on too long.

Griefmaker already made my point in reply.

While spellswords are more sustained awesome and clerics are more bursty awesome, I don't agree with your assessment about Cleric obsolescence. Clerics can actually do all kinds of amazing things spellswords can't, up to and including epic spells and foci. They can double and triple stack their own damage if they want too (divine favor, dark fire, divine might, etc.) And they can do it with a vampire coven out while dropping (once again) a hellball on you. So...

I'm sure the tweaks are coming to spellsword. But, in the mean time, "how does this nerf clerics?" It doesn't! They're still amazing!!!

The only "hit thingy with sword" benefit clerics have over spellswords is AB, which they need to cast a few spells to acquire. Spellswords out-damage them (and, to be fair, everyone else) significantly.

Healer clerics are super great as supporting characters, nobody does what they do, but battle/fighter clerics have been left in the dust by the current meta -- not just spellswords.

Thread. Meet dead horse. Can we lock? This has become some sort of support group for people that hate that spellswords outshine them.

Ork wrote:Thread. Meet dead horse. Can we lock? This has become some sort of support group for people that hate that spellswords outshine them.

It wasn't my intent to stamp my feet about how uber spellswords are, as even a cursory look over this thread might be able to demonstrate that well enough. Only that I disagree with RedGiant's assertion that clerics are amazing. Is that so deserving of snark and calls for a lock?

I think he was more commenting on this thread in general, not your specific contribution to it!

That said, Ork, it doesn't seem to be on fire yet, and Kirito might get something useful out of it when he does get around to looking at a Spellsword nerf.

RedGiant wrote:Griefmaker already made my point in reply.

While spellswords are more sustained awesome and clerics are more bursty awesome, I don't agree with your assessment about Cleric obsolescence. Clerics can actually do all kinds of amazing things spellswords can't, up to and including epic spells and foci. They can double and triple stack their own damage if they want too (divine favor, dark fire, divine might, etc.) And they can do it with a vampire coven out while dropping (once again) a hellball on you. So...

I'm sure the tweaks are coming to spellsword. But, in the mean time, "how does this nerf clerics?" It doesn't! They're still amazing!!!

How can you compare clerics and spellsswords? Spellswords gets AC in one, undispelleble spell where cleric must část how many....four to five spells to gain same? (Barskin, 2 * vestment, shield...) Half of which will go away on dispel or breach. Clerical burst damage spells will go off on dispels too, and it takes several rounds to cast in round.

Hellball had been nerfed and its damage now is nowhere any amazing.

If you feel to defend OP class, than at least, do not make hilarious pointing out at things which are not on par not any slightly.

Baron Saturday wrote:I think he was more commenting on this thread in general, not your specific contribution to it!

That said, Ork, it doesn't seem to be on fire yet, and Kirito might get something useful out of it when he does get around to looking at a Spellsword nerf.

*crawls out from mountain of real-life coding work... and now snow*

Everything said in this thread regarding the different ways spellswords are overtuned have been acknowledged for a while. The path will take a slow track along the nerf highway so we don't end up with warlocks mk2.

All of this is waiting on me getting some semblance of life/free time back however. =)

(and yes, I agree that with the current echo chamber of grumpyness towards spellswords it might as well get locked as there's nothing new coming to the table here, and the problems that have been highlighted have also been responded to and will be addressed soon (tm) )

Our savior! <3 Don't spread yourself too thin and thank you so much for the effort.