Accountability

[Zed]

This thread should be locked and cleaned. This is the very opposite of a constructive post at this point.

You are perpetuating that. The DM was within their rights to post the whole context. No one should be defending Penwise's use of a doctored discord conversation.

If this thread is locked bevause od solloers behavior I will take it as confirmation that supporters of this type of behavior flame and brigade threads with concerns in them just to get the thread shut down

Practice what you preach.

I'm not the one that drailed the thread in a chance to "pwn" someone with legitmate concerns. The DM is. Id say they should do the same.

Those with authority should have a higher standard set not only on themselves but from the people they have authority over. For the people they have authority over will,mirror that behavior tenfold

[Kreydis]

This thread should be locked and cleaned. This is the very opposite of a constructive post at this point.

If this thread is locked bevause od solloers behavior I will take it as confirmation that supporters of this type of behavior flame and brigade threads with concerns in them just to get the thread shut down

It's not Sollers running roughshod over the thread posting hyperbole and exaggeration right now.

They literally can't post proof like I said, without breaking the rules. It's a catch 22. Post proof, you're instantly in the wrong. Don't post proof, it's hyperbole.

Now you can go Spyre's route and say that everyone saying there's something inherently wrong with the server right now is apart of this mythical riot because clearly, they hate the server. Not it's anger built out of love for the place we RP in. Or we can consider why so many players from endless numbers of disconnected factions and RP groups are all saying the same thing and pretend like we can find a solution. Because as it stands, there isn't a solution I think.

But we can acknowledge there is a problem. Or we can call everyone who says there is one, the problem.

Still, I think everyone, including myself as Orc says, might need to take a fat chill pill, and see how it boils over. We gain nothing by bickering. And everyone should honestly share what they think they need to without being shut down.

[Azensor]

Well.. three posts in one day, yippee..
I'll start with soller,ohh dont worry I'll be getting to everyone else, for me.. it seems like ill-intent was assumed..is there ill-intent.. or a desire to twist words.. there is only truly one way to know.. and that is to ask the other person and clarify what there cropped screenshot means..and why its cropped.

To the others on this post, 'Accountability' -Holding ones self responsible for their actions.. keep that sentence in mind before you post anymore vitriol, I -dont- care to whom your posting it to, this thread could still have plenty of good -discussion- and -discourse- but you need to first take a breath or two and -chill-.

[MarkingOfTime]

I do find it very concerning that Spyre would label those with concerns as part of the problem.

Is this the message you really want to be spreading when many of us are still hurting?

[Royal Blood]

A lot of this is beyond me. Things that I'm not involved in and don't understand. That being said, there are aspects of a larger issue with the DM team that I think are valid. I can't really think of a time a DM has said "You know what, you're right, we could have handled that differently" Or ever admitted to maybe making a mistake that is worth correcting? I mean even in -obvious- areas of criticism it's deflection after deflection.

I think the DM Team could humble themselves a bit and perhaps acknowlege that it seems like, a large number of players have become unhappy with their conduct and right or wrong it's the way those players feel. Yes, I get the DMs are players too. I also get that being a DM here is more about handling angry people (Like me sometimes) and less about actually Dming anything. I sympathize for real.

That being said,

I think we as players need to understand the only person we can truly control is ourself. So while it's okay and good to express concerns at the end of the day, our best bet is to focus on being the best RPer/player we can be for ourselves and not worry about others.

If someone wants to meme their way through a city killing everyone and spawn into the hub and hellball everyone, then let them. They ruin their own RP and reputation. Report it to the DMs and move on. You are entirely in control over how much it affects you.

[CosmicOrderV]

But in my eyes this practice of cutting ppl's characters off the writ system and starter characters in Andunor (or elsewhere) via mass-exile is social-isolation technqiue of bullying.

Getting exiled does not stop one from obtaining writs? The writ master has neutral access and not associated with a settlement.

[MorallyGrey]

This thread should be locked and cleaned. This is the very opposite of a constructive post at this point.

You are perpetuating that. The DM was within their rights to post the whole context. No one should be defending Penwise's use of a doctored discord conversation.

If this thread is locked bevause od solloers behavior I will take it as confirmation that supporters of this type of behavior flame and brigade threads with concerns in them just to get the thread shut down

Practice what you preach.

I'm not the one that drailed the thread in a chance to "pwn" someone with legitmate concerns. The DM is. Id say they should do the same.

Those with authority should have a higher standard set not only on themselves but from the people they have authority over. For the people they have authority over will,mirror that behavior tenfold

To "pwn" someone? Really? Your logic is circular and confusing. You seem upset and at this point you are ranting and grasping at straws. You should take a moment to cool off.

[DM Chiliad]

There is no place at this community table for individuals not presently playing on this server on an In-Client capacity who come to the conversation with the idea of starting fights.

While we appreciate those who have come out to support their friends, we must ask that grievances and requests from the Team come from people playing an active role in our community In Game as much as they are Out of Game.

An individual apart of this conversation has been forum banned to allow space for the people who have personal stake in this to speak for themselves. We do not want rabble-rousers inciting frenzy with second hand information, when by their own admission do not play. We want feedback and conversation directly from the source.

While we cannot promise you complete transparency for the privacy of individuals involved in the cases that appear to be called into question, we can attempt to outline and answer what we can within reasonable bounds.

PM me and CC the team if you have specific private questions. Discord is regrettably also an option.

[Kreydis]

An individual apart of this conversation has been forum banned to allow space for the people who have personal stake in this to speak for themselves. We do not want rabble-rousers inciting frenzy with second hand information, when by their own admission do not play. We want feedback and conversation directly from the source.

While I can understand where this comes from, and I can only suggest that if a player has quit over this, they have an equal perspective to their opinions so long as they're not spouting IC events.

[Zed]

There is always a place at the table for those that have a vested interest in the server.

Edit__ To clarify:

There SHOULD always be a place at the table for people who want this vommunity to thrive.

I think if anyone needs to step back it should be the people who feel assaulted every time something negative is pointed out to the server admins/DMs.

Spyre thinks nothing is wrong but a portion of the community has quit and will likely continue to quit until something is done.

Do I know what needs to be done? No. Do I want the server to die? Absolutely not. Otherwise I wouldnt keep coming back to help those that are legitimately AFRAID of posting here, people that commentate on this thread who do not want to do so because its PROVEN that the DMs will hold you in a negative light if you even slightly speak ill of the server.

[MarkingOfTime]

There is no place at this community table for individuals not presently playing on this server on an In-Client capacity who come to the conversation with the idea of starting fights.

While we appreciate those who have come out to support their friends, we must ask that grievances and requests from the Team come from people playing an active role in our community In Game as much as they are Out of Game.

An individual apart of this conversation has been forum banned to allow space for the people who have personal stake in this to speak for themselves. We do not want rabble-rousers inciting frenzy with second hand information, when by their own admission do not play. We want feedback and conversation directly from the source.

While we cannot promise you complete transparency for the privacy of individuals involved in the cases that appear to be called into question, we can attempt to outline and answer what we can within reasonable bounds.

PM me and CC the team if you have specific private questions. Discord is regrettably also an option.

They said themselves they were acting as a proxy by players who they themselves were terrified of being banned. You have only confirmed their fears and galvanised them.

[Huschpfusch]

But in my eyes this practice of cutting ppl's characters off the writ system and starter characters in Andunor (or elsewhere) via mass-exile is social-isolation technqiue of bullying.

Getting exiled does not stop one from obtaining writs? The writ master has neutral access and not associated with a settlement.

The writ master is in Hub upstairs. OUr faction was exiled from entire city of Andunor.
So if ppl had known I was from faction it be hard for non sneaky type to get to writ master in Hub upstairs...

[DM Apollo]

A lot of this is beyond me. Things that I'm not involved in and don't understand. That being said, there are aspects of a larger issue with the DM team that I think are valid. I can't really think of a time a DM has said "You know what, you're right, we could have handled that differently" Or ever admitted to maybe making a mistake that is worth correcting? I mean even in -obvious- areas of criticism it's deflection after deflection.

I think the DM Team could humble themselves a bit and perhaps acknowlege that it seems like, a large number of players have become unhappy with their conduct and right or wrong it's the way those players feel. Yes, I get the DMs are players too. I also get that being a DM here is more about handling angry people (Like me sometimes) and less about actually Dming anything. I sympathize for real.

I would like to say that this does happen; we do acknowledge mistakes. I personally recently apologized to a player for the decision to not ask their permission to use a rolled character of theirs in a plot - to honour the history of the character. I hadn't realized the player was still playing and hadn't done the proper diligence to ensure such or to reach out and get them involved. In this case the player expressed there were no hard feelings, but there is still value in acknowledging a mistake, learning and doing better next time.

[Nitro]

There is always a place at the table for those that have a vested interest in the server.

Edit__ To clarify:

There SHOULD always be a place at the table for people who want this vommunity to thrive.

I think if anyone needs to step back it should be the people who feel assaulted every time something negative is pointed out to the server admins/DMs.

Spyre thinks nothing is wrong but a portion of the community has quit and will likely continue to quit until something is done.

Do I know what needs to be done? No. Do I want the server to die? Absolutely not. Otherwise I wouldnt keep coming back to help those that are legitimately AFRAID of posting here, people that commentate on this thread who do not want to do so because its PROVEN that the DMs will hold you in a negative light if you even slightly speak ill of the server.

I don't think so though. Look through my post history, it's a mixed bag of praising things that I think are good and calling out things I think are bad. And at no point have I ever suffered an infraction, ban or even a stern talking to from the DM's, nor have any of my reports been met with anything but regular professionalism.

What the people who get banned for being disruptive tell their friends is that they get banned for questioning the server. What's actually happening is that they're being disruptive, insulting or otherwise rude doing so.

And people who don't even play on the server absolutely shouldn't be talking about current events. If all of their knowledge is from secondhand accounts that they have no way of verifying if they're correct or not, what weight does their word even have?

[Greel70]

This thread was opened with the intent of putting onus on the DM team and staff for the state of the server. In attempt to point a finger at a problem and say this is why it is the way it is. But, there is a lot of inaccuracies in the original post. And, I’ll go through it all.

Permanent bans are abundant.

I can count the number of bans that have been long term since the announcement on a single hand with fingers left over. So, no. The DM team is not just throwing permanent bans out because they can. If someone has earned a permanent ban then they have done something to deserve it.

I just want to add my two cents as a player that put their 1000 hours into arelith. I had the opportunity to RP with two great players that received a permanent ban with no appeal until six months has past. So Spyre for you to say that permanent bans you can count on one hand I find that either hard to believe or that the small group of players I play with to be targeted specifically through association.

When a player toes the lines of the rules all the time, bending it to benefit themselves and to ruin the fun of others, and that prior attempts to correct it have failed, the DM team will act accordingly. This may mean a long term ban.

However, the complaint that problematic players have remained when they shouldn’t has been a thing I have heard through the community. When the DM then acts upon their changes policy because they do not see the person learning after all that time, it’s then seen as too strict. Either way they handle it, people are against the team. Not everyone, but a good handful.

I would like to know ore about the "be nice" rule. Because this was the rule that was quoted as being broken. Don't worry about explaining it to me, but explain it to others. Specifically, I think the confusion is how this rule correlates to PvP.

You can then build your own world with your own rules and guidelines and enjoy yourself. However, coming onto Arelith, you agree to follow the rules and guidelines established. If there are concerns of conduct from a DM, please first message the Head DM before reaching the admins. There is established processes for this.

I wish I could do this but DM Atropos has shown clear personal hostilities toward a player I know and I have little reason to expect unbiased opinions from them.

Hello. I see that a doctored version of our conversations has been shared in your signature, Penwize. As you have waived confidentiality by providing a doctored screenshot, I am going to follow the example of transparency you have requested and share our private conversations from first message to last.

And as far as what DM Sollers just posted I have little faith in the DM team. I completely disagree with what you did. I did not even see Penwize's signature until you blasted your personal convo with them.

An individual apart of this conversation has been forum banned to allow space for the people who have personal stake in this to speak for themselves. We do not want rabble-rousers inciting frenzy with second hand information, when by their own admission do not play. We want feedback and conversation directly from the source.

Even as I was typing someone was banned from the forums. Are you really making this server and public forum here for only the select few to enjoy? I think I've seen enough tyranny from the DM team that I no longer wish to play on it. I hope your Admin team saw the message I sent in months ago stating that if the DM team continued to show nepotism and favoritism that several people would leave this server. I guess you can count me among them.

Goodbye Arelith, I wish I could say it was worth it.

[DM Chiliad]

The players are more than welcome to step forward and speak with us if they are truly seeking clarification and truth on the matter. But we will be making a very sincere effort to avoid getting into a fight.

I will always be the first to admit when I've done something wrong. And presently, as a Team we feel as though we have made informed decisions based off of all the information we have collectively spent many hours of our time getting, reviewing and questioning. Even as a team, we are made up of people from many circles and at times we don't always agree. However when it comes to 'big decisions' (like the very, very small handful of perma bans this server has) the team is typically in unanimous decision on those. So, I am open to hearing of anything we might have missed or not considered.

Have there been things that could've been handled better? Always. Retrospection is always 20/20 and we are not so above ourselves as to say we can't listen to feedback and really take time to consider if we could be doing better. I don't have enough fingers to count the number of times I've ran a quest that was utterly terrible and unfun for everyone involved or had a little whoopsie with the client (though I like to pride myself on having a very low to non-existent number of times I've had a bad conversation with a player).

I'm here to talk, and listen to the community. I am not here to indulge people who want to instigate and start fights with the Team over decisions that are largely in their hands. If you've been punished, I'd ask that before you try hoisting the blame onto anyone but yourself, you take a moment to really ask yourself if you really have been the glowing example of a supportive and kind community member.

[Xerah]

No one should be afraid of posting here. If they are, I’d wager that they know they’ve been involved in their share of wrong doings otherwise, they are just creating hysteria.

Also, it’s very reasonable to ask that someone who does not actively play to not try and “help”.

[Zavandar]

why are people not even playing here so invested

surely this doesn't have to do with the frostblade/starglow echo chamber and their plot to blow up the forums and reddit

[Huschpfusch]

Have there been things that could've been handled better?

Maybe in future DM team when there is a problem with war-factions can make a discord chat for all sides members to join for mediation?
So others aside from faction leaders and bigshots know what is going on also. And also so that you can easily read and talk to members of opposing faction.

[Flip Flappers]

Goodbye Arelith, I wish I could say it was worth it.

Bye Felicia

[HA GOTEM I DIDNT ROLL]

idk even who 70% of you are

[Faint]

The staff literally has an uprising against them here. The huge quantity of rightfully aggrieved players that they claim do not exist, clearly exist. A fraction of the playerbase who sees an issue with the system at current, has the courage to speak up against it. The majority are well aware that critiquing the system, or acknowledging its flaws in any capacity, is a swift path to the banhammer.

What you're witnessing here is a mere window into the catastrophic backlash of censorship, obscure rules that even the DMs cannot interpret with any semblance of mutual agreement or consistency, and bans predicated upon wrong-think and dissenting opinions. The system is clearly not working. How many more people have to leave before its imperfection is acknowledged?

You can't just censor this away. You can't just delete everyone's posts, lock their threads, ban figureheads of ideological dissent, and have the problem magically dissipate. History has proven in every medium imaginable that that simply doesn't work. All it does is anger people and cultivate more dissatisfaction with those in power.

What you're doing RIGHT NOW as a staff is precisely what led Amia to its death as a server. It turned into a ghost town for the same reasons, and in much the same way. Arelith is witnessing a mass exodus of players. Arelith is witnessing it because the staff has continually refused to hear people out when they try to bring a critical problem to the attention of the DM team.

If you critique the system at current, if you claim it is -anything- but God's gift to rule structures and administrations, if you label it as anything but perfect, you're viewed as a problem. It doesn't matter if it's in private. It's wrong-think, and a categorical accusation of breach of the "Be Nice" rule is well on its way as a result.

But, don't worry. The response to a collective outcry of "The system is broken, please fix it" will be as it always was. "Nothing to see here. The server is perfect. The staff is perfect. The rules are perfect. No players are unhappy. All is well."

A deleted post, a locked thread, a problem swept under the rug. Complete and abject denial of the issue's existence, followed by a pretty political statement that claims everything is flawless.

That's how things are 'resolved', and that's why this server will continue to bleed players for the foreseeable future. As a staff, you were warned about this issue for months on end. People plead with you, begged you to see it and do something to actually hold the staff accountable for their actions, and they were met with careless dismissal of their complaints. The 50-80 people now leaving the server is just the beginning of the consequences of that. The players aren't the problem.

The rules are the problem. And you, by extension, are a problem for refusing to acknowledge it. Your glorified system is the antithesis of ideal. It is the polar opposite of perfect.

If you want to fix the problem, begin by fixing your rules, and begin by fixing yourselves.

P.S. Sollers undeniably breached the Be Nice rule with that post he made in response to Penwize. Is he exempt because of his rank? Hm.

[Kreydis]

No one should be afraid of posting here. If they are, I’d wager that they know they’ve been involved in their share of wrong doings otherwise, they are just creating hysteria.

Every time this is posted, it's sad.

But more people in this thread then you know of have at one point in time or another stated that they're afraid of pushing the issue. Because they feel like if they do, they'll just get banned. This is unhealthy, and like I said in the previous thread when Irongon posted his permaban change of Arelith thing. People have lost faith in each other as players, hence the hostile mass reporting on all sides. Let alone not reporting, because they don't think the DM team will act on it. Despite how often they continue to beg us for more reports if we feel something is wrong.

Proof in point is how Zavandar just posted who he's blaming OOCly for this thread.

[Nitro]

What you're doing RIGHT NOW as a staff is precisely what led Amia to its death as a server. It turned into a ghost town for the same reasons, and in much the same way. Arelith is witnessing a mass exodus of players. Arelith is witnessing it because the staff has continually refused to hear people out when they try to bring a critical problem to the attention of the DM team.

Hahaha what? We have more players than we've ever had and with the same rules and rule enforcement that the server's had from the start. Do you honestly believe all this 'fact' that you're pulling out of nowhere?

The 50-80 people now leaving the server is just the beginning of the consequences of that.

-snerk-

[Wrips]

surely this doesn't have to do with the frostblade/starglow echo chamber and their plot to blow up the forums and reddit

Frostblades had five active members that Rivis had to do some herculean effort to put together to do something and, with luck, they wouldn't bail to play alts or do other things. But we somehow want to blow up the forums lol