Specialist Wizards

[Spriggan Bride]

Ah, whoops, I will edit out my mistake on that. I still think this just isn't the path for me or what I want from an enchanter but I do understand the intent and hope others find use in it.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

I honestly wonder if we could just remove base nwn specialist options so that we can create properly thematic specialists from scratch.

These changes are definitely better than nothing though.

[Xerah]

I honestly wonder if we could just remove base nwn specialist options so that we can create properly thematic specialists from scratch.

These changes are definitely better than nothing though.

That's pretty much a non starter given the amount of work that went into this and the amount of work it would take to created 8 new classes. I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish with that. The goal was to create options for specialist wizards that make them more appealing than just a generalist.

[Spriggan Bride]

It's a success at separating them from generalists and an appreciated change.

One last thing that is a small question mark. I'm considering a shadow mage specialist but the things they are good at are at odds with each other. Enchantment blocks illusion, illusion blocks enchantment. Necromancy works but I was hoping to scry as that seems thematic for a shadowmage and it blocks divination. Of course Divination blocks illusion too. I'm actually thinking Transmutation or Abjuration might be the way I have to go (and maybe a Tensers-spamming shadowmage would actually work in a weird way).

I'm not suggesting anything needs to change and maybe this quandary is even by design but making this decision certainly is messing my mind up a little.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

I honestly wonder if we could just remove base nwn specialist options so that we can create properly thematic specialists from scratch.

These changes are definitely better than nothing though.

That's pretty much a non starter given the amount of work that went into this and the amount of work it would take to created 8 new classes. I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish with that. The goal was to create options for specialist wizards that make them more appealing than just a generalist.

Not everything I write has a goal/agenda, sometimes it just hopeful wishes being expressed.

I just thought maybe specialists could be handled like paths so you don't have half the specialist schools banning conjuration/etc (and illusionist could have more umph an example). Specialists are a passion of mine for table top. Sorry i mentioned something that requires too much work. I appreciate the effort that has been made.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

I think they all have potential to find their niche, even if my eyes immediately go to enchantment and transmutation (not sure if its good just something new!), and immediately dismiss conjurers and evocation. Its not that the last two are totally awful, they just in my mind give up too much for too little gain. I do think enchanters are the big winners here, especially if you can use wands for improved invisi. The dominate glitch needs to be fixed though or it will never get played.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

My first character, a sun elf sitting on a shelf, has been an evocation specialist since I made him I don't remember exactly how many years ago now. He's somewhere in the lower 20's, 24, I think. He's a lot of fun to play when I occasionally dusted him off, but much like with his kids being true flames, I frequently had a hard time justifying the cost of using spell components for 'flashier' spells.

Some of the spell additions and changes address that on their own, but it's still exceedingly difficult to overlook the value of a maximized firebrand (free), maximized ice storm (which continues to scale in epic levels, also free), maxed IGMS, maxed empowered chain, extended forceful hand, maximized ball lightning (which, along with firebrand, does more damage than a maximized chain lightning as soon as there's 3 or more monsters to target) - all free.

It's not that I can't afford the spell components- it's that I can't justify spending the gold IC as anything other than exorbitantly unnecessary.

So I really, realllllllly like this update. Thank you lots for the specialist love.

[jomonog]

Suggestion for conjuration, make chance of mono from summon ix 100%. At the moment no one in right mind would play conjuration specialist giving up trans and losing access to book zoos (empower/extend) and mass haste. Gap between an unbuffed (or wand buffed) mono and buffed elemental is not that much and having only a 25% chance just means people will likely fill spell slots with summon IX and conjure until they get one which effectively kills conj specialist even further reducing effective number of level 9 spells with which to work. Would still probably be weak(er) sauce but at least playable if mono were 100% guaranteed.

[Bunnysmack]

I feel like 100% mono would be overkill. Having ONE mono per rest is already a recipe for handling a ton of epic content, and as many as you have book slots and scrolls for would be...Well, easy mode.

[-XXX-]

I feel like 100% mono would be overkill. Having ONE mono per rest is already a recipe for handling a ton of epic content, and as many as you have book slots and scrolls for would be...Well, easy mode.

I second this.
On the other hand, I don't think that making it a random chance is a good solution either TBH. I can see players drink/resting until they get the monolith before they tackle PvE content, especially once we realize that an elder elemental can't handle certain dungeons while a monolithic one turns them into a trivial excercise.

25% chance to summon a monolith = 100% chance + a very drunk conjurer.

Rather than making it a random chance, I'd consider looking at making it a 100% chance when certain conditions are met.
Something comparable to 1x/rest but slightly less convenient. Having 100% rest comes to mind, but it's just an idea.

[Lexx]

Mono for a specialist conj is overkill. Just increase hit die /stat bonuses more on your summon spells more. Air circle 9s being fed potions can already tank epics content reliably.

[-XXX-]

Why do you think that it is an overkill for a specialist wizard and is ok for a wild mage?

[jomonog]

Even if it was limited to 1/rest but guaranteed on first cast of summon 9 i think thats better than having to spam summon ix's and re-rest until you get the mono (which is what will happen with the 25%). Puts it on par with wild mage being able to fate mono 1/rest

[Zanithar]

Right now Conjuration seems like a weaker Wild Mage without the Transmutation school. The ability to summon more than one Monolith per day just allows the Conjuration Specialist slightly more versatility if they get lucky on the 25% roll. How many Monoliths do you generally anticipate needing per rest and is it more valuable to summon one on demand or to cast an unknown number of Summon IX spells before getting one?

I do not see any reason not to take Wild Mage over a Conjuration Specialist wizard. Even with a 100% Monolith. I’d take once a day Monolith on demand + Timestop (and Timestop scrolls) + ESF: Transmutation buffs on my once per day Monolith + the GSanc escape this mess spell.

With summons, it is not only important to have them on demand but also critically important to be able to improve them. I’d rather have a once per day guaranteed summon I can buff than 25% chance of getting one I cannot buff properly and lose all my escape spells and the one spell that makes you PvP viable as a wizard in the process. You are better off with a buffed Ancient over an unbuffed Monolith.

No Timestop and you cannot use the scrolls.
No escape spells and no scrolls.
Inadequate buffs making your Monolith barely better than an Ancient, perhaps not even as good once you drop a 54 round haste on your Ancient.

I do like Acid cloud every 3 minutes but I am willing to give that up for the Transmutation School

[Nitro]

Why do you think that it is an overkill for a specialist wizard and is ok for a wild mage?

I don't think it's ok for a wild mage. I think wild mages are 100% a power upgrade to regular wizards and need a nerf to make them a sidegrade.

[Lexx]

Why do you think that it is an overkill for a specialist wizard and is ok for a wild mage?

Because it has all the benefits without any of the negative of having what is arguably one of the most used wild mage surges.

As for the wild mages needing 'downgraded'. Just improve wizards lot to bring them up to parity or you wind up making the class pointless to take long run. Though I won't continue that line of conversation since this isn't the thread for that.

[Bunnysmack]

Once per rest at 100% chance does seem like the more reasonable solution for making the conj specialist more effective. That, or making it so you can't create a new mono until a 15-30 minute cooldown ends, which starts ticking from the moment of summoning, and auto-refreshes when you rest. That would still make it more often than the 1X rest that wild mages get, as they simply need to have their mono survive long enough to pass the cooldown and they can call another one.

Don't know if it is feasible, but would it be possible to replace the signature spell with Summon Monster I through IX (Scaling to highest spell circle of caster)? Acid fog IS fantastic, but having backup summons constantly refreshing is pretty conjuration flavored and would make the transmutation sacrifice a lot more palatable.

[Xerah]

I'm moving this week so this work has been delayed. Mostly done but just needs to be tested.

Where it is now (bad formatting):

Change log:

Signature spells added

These spells operate on the same cooldown, but the character has a bit more options when it comes to choosing which one to be able to cast. Some of the original spells were conditional and this should allow more flexibility with still maintaining the theme.
• Abj: Lesser Breach + Globe of Invulnerability
• Conj: Acid Fog + Cloud kill
• Trans: Tensors + Flesh to Stone
• Necro: Circle of death + Undead to Death
• Enchantment: Good hope + Dominate Person
• Illusion: Phantasmal killer + Nightmare
• Evo: IGMS + Prismatic spray
• Divination: True sight + Feeblemind

NECRO
• Circle of death get the same scaling as PM
• Extra dread mummy chance = 1% per wizard level

TRANS
• Tensors:
o +1 STR/DEX for each spell focus (specialist wizards get additional +1); note: this can allow for +12 with tensors and a zoo spell with ESF.
o Divine shield is not allowed during/before casting
o Fortitude Save bonus = +5
o HP Bonus = Wizard level D6
 Specialist has this bonus maximized
o AB bonus = wizard levels (caster level) turned into fighter of same level (i.e. like divine power) which may gives bonus attacks
 Specialist gets additional bonus of +1AB per 10 levels
o Polymorph is removed
o Spell failure = 100%
o The command “-dispel ten” will dispel this
• Empower does give an effect for maximized transmuter zoo spells (i.e. +10)

CONJ
• Wizard lvl check for summoning a monolith elemental
• Monolith elemental % chance equal to 2 x wiz level
• GSF Conj adds Caster Level to SR
• ESF Conj adds Haste to the summon

Dev Comment: Conjuration seemed hard pressed to give up Trans, but by adding SR and giving summons haste, this should make it a better option.

DIV
• ESF: premonition gives +7 DR (instead of the +5)


SCRY
• Returned to 60 second base
• Option for 120 seconds and 240 sections (use -scry 1min/2min/4min to set)
• Diviner 8 min cooldown
• Cooldown is not refreshed on rest

Deck of Stars
• Requires greater spell focus now

UNDEAD Summoning:
• Dread Mummy has Word of Faith removed
• Tyrant Fog and Warrior Zombie tiers flipped around

Dev Comments: Dread mummy WoF often did not do much and stood around doing nothing a lot of time because of LoS issues. This should allow it to be a lot more effective. The tyrant fog zombie is a downgrade to the warrior zombie and has been flipped.

[Shrouded Wanderer]

I know necro gets a ton of cookies with Palemaster (no counting toward the specialist levels)

But ive used dread mummies WoF a lot and never found it worthless.

Seems necro gets a nerf when all others get a buff.

[Xerah]

I disagree. I very much agreed with Hunter's assessment earlier (which also tracked with my Undead summon experience) in the thread which prompted those changes.

[Lexx]

I'd have to agree with shrouded. If you're controlling summons properly it was rarely an issue with line of sight and WoF getting slung out. If you want examples where that is a persistent issue with summons locked up doing nothing. The imp and qasit summons on warlocks constantly have this windup issue.

[Shrouded Wanderer]

I disagree. I very much agreed with Hunter's assessment earlier (which also tracked with my Undead summon experience) in the thread which prompted those changes.

Using the same assesment all celestials who can would need WoF removed as well.

Anyone with 3 summons needs to be using the associate tool, which by and large removes any Line of sight issue.

Additionally the dread mummies fiest action ALWAYS upon encountering a target is to first cast WoF, this is very consistent in usage which means you can account for this immediately upon summoning and/or attacking a target.


What removing WoF does, in this instance is further cement Vampires as the only stream worth using as a necro, which were already used more due to enervation, movespeed, damage, AND APR.

Whereas mummies are supposed to be tanks i posit the only thing mummies had going for them was KD, which is largely ignored and the ability to use WoF as a blind which gave a necro a choice in combat, one that with this change will lead to mummies being worthless on the whole, even with the 25% chance to create two dread mummies.


Edit: additionally while the CoD scaling is fine, save bloat makes save or die worthless against any PC, meaning its largely making Necro focused more on PvE than PvP, which in my opinion is the wrong direction considering the implications of Necro mean they find themselves in PvP more than any other class except perhaps warlocks.

As well the loss of premonition and scry from a specialist necro exasturbates taking it as a specialty.


Side note i am a big fan of Div getting +7 for premo.

[Bunnysmack]

Are those changes posted to test server yet? Or are they still at the coding stage? Honestly, some of that stuff sounds super fun and I'd be stoked to try them out in the PGCC playground.

[Xerah]

Are those changes posted to test server yet? Or are they still at the coding stage? Honestly, some of that stuff sounds super fun and I'd be stoked to try them out in the PGCC playground.

No, there are too many changes to set it up to individually work only on the test server. While that would be the ideal approach, the number of specialist wizards are quite low so the overall impact on the server ends up being kind of low risk in this case.

[Bunnysmack]

Ah, understandable. One question about the update to Tensers then: With the lack of polymorph, will the mage still get the default Tenser's sword as a temporary item, or will it be assumed that the caster should do something like switch in a suped up spear from their inventory?