Arelith

Wh-what? That is even more confusing. Well, if they want to waste an hour sailing...

Just gonna bypass the current conversation to give this quick feedback.

I did the first three writs marked level 3 in Andunor. I am now level 5. This is quite nice.

Ive personally never been too concerned with adventure xp running out due to a lack of writs, or ticks giving it away too fast. You just...turn -adventure mode on for a while.

Party in the forest at midnight wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:30 pm I don't see why high levels in a dungeon is an issue. If a high level is doing a writ they'll be done it sooner than a low level party, and respawn is real fast. You can only do writs once, and I assume can still only do 3 per day. So people aren't going to be farming the Cordor sewer writs every day non stop. And if level 30s looting books from Bloodmoon doesn't cause issues, I doubt people doing the writ will be.

What it will do is give people a reason to do some of the more difficult and unfun writs once people are at a level where they can effectively complete it. There might be fewer people clogging up popular dungeons. People will have more reason to do the sailing writs or spriggan writ instead of grind Orclands on loop once in epic levels.

Well, my first quest in the sewer with a new character, and sure enough, already had a higher level in their trash talking and trying to provoke me and my badger, with his stone-skinned and bark-skinned tiger... here we go...

high levels 'helping' low levels knowing they can kick everyone's Snuggybear in the place... great...

The option to refuse to engage with disrespectful characters is an option often refused by players in the community despite it being doable in character with emotes. This interaction spoken of above was quite blatantly approached in an OOC manner, instead if an IC manner.

Your character can tell this guy is stronger than them? Back down. Your real life pride isn't on the line.

Make a 6 minute timer and check again.

Killer on the drive home wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:49 am The option to refuse to engage with disrespectful characters is an option often refused by players in the community despite it being doable in character with emotes. This interaction spoken of above was quite blatantly approached in an OOC manner, instead if an IC manner.

Your character can tell this guy is stronger than them? Back down. Your real life pride isn't on the line.

Make a 6 minute timer and check again.

My character simply made an off hand comment and continued on his way. He is not suicidal. It was very much handled IC. However it is very easy for people to play "big man on campus" and bully and try to engage others while patrolling lowbie dungeons. Yes, this was just one interaction, just not a very good first impression.

But if this is the new norm of encountering fully buffed lowbies along with their high-level helpers, I do not see how this helps interaction. And at the same time it all but eliminates any possibility of fair and fun PvP. What would have happened if I was playing a low level necromancer and that high level character or his friend was a paladin or druid.... I probably end up in the Fugue or I would always have to succumb to their wishes.

Again, just a first impression. We'll see how it goes.

TBH I can see two angles here:

a) low level areas should not be considered an exclusive turf for lowbies. I consider this mentality to be the worst thing that the writs have brought (or rather strongly pronounced) since their introduction - this "stay in your lane" attitude that only further perpetuates the "RP begins at lvl 30 meme".

b) bringing a high level character into a lowbie area to bully weak characters is lame. On the other hand this offers a great incentive for the low level characters to go ask the high lvl characters back in town for help. So in a way what might seem like an OOC inconvenience at the first glance can be also percieved as an RP opportunity in disguise - that's not necessarily a bad thing.


Of course, it all depends on the circumstances and there are bad extremes to both sides of this argument, be it "I'm gonna pwn some lowbies for the funzies" or "I want to grind right now and just won't stop at nothing before I hit that next lvl".

Preying on weaker beings is a thing in Forgotten Realms, your character should be upset and react in some way, you should not be upset OOCly.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a high level character wandering low level areas, if there is a reason for that and it is done in good taste. If it's happening every day, same place? Sure, report it. A rare occurrence? Roll with it, enjoy the RP.

Honestly, I think this is one of the unspoken good things about this shift. It is a lot easier to level a suboptimal build right now because you can run lower level writs for xp. The whole change has got me thinking about all the heavy RP-weak pve builds I've dreamed of over the last few years. Or builds that take a lot longer to come into their prime are now less of a pain to try and do stuff with.

This update, despite not having my name attached, was very much based upon my own numbers and specifications. Those familar with my plan for writs will know that from the outset I intended for each to be 'one shot', and the level 1-10 cap, the 20+ level difference rule, and of course the removal of the level requirement (outside of Skal) were also based upon my wishes. I had intended to see this adjustment made later (when more writs were prepared), but recent changes to the system necessitated that this plan was advanced.

Needless to say I was never keen on the RP surrounding the level requirement, and I do believe this hampered factions and smaller settlements. With each writ being done only once, I hope this will not be too much of an issue, but there is a real risk that some players will game the system, by doing near epic writs at level 10 with some 30th level friends, and after getting a big chunk of XP and levelling, go back and do the (now easier) lower level writs later. At some point we have to trust players to play in a way that is most enjoyable for everyone, but with this we shall have to wait and see, it may be the 20 level difference will need to be lowered to 15, or the writ reward cap increased beyond 10.

From the development standpoint, I admit I find it hard when something that has been gradually built upon over years, gets torn down and rebuilt over a couple of weeks as it leaves a great deal to adjust where before it was something I did not need to pay a great deal of attention to. I hope everyone is understanding during this period of transition.

Shadowy Reality wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:17 pm Preying on weaker beings is a thing in Forgotten Realms, your character should be upset and react in some way, you should not be upset OOCly.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a high level character wandering low level areas, if there is a reason for that and it is done in good taste. If it's happening every day, same place? Sure, report it. A rare occurrence? Roll with it, enjoy the RP.

On the other hand it's a video game and we do have guard rails in place to make sure the game is playable, like RP before PVP being required for example. Murdering someone weaker without having a conversation first is also a thing in Forgotten Realms but it's prohibited because most of us don't want a game where you get one-shotted with no other interaction involved. Or the raid rules on settlements, that happens in any fantasy world too but it has to be regulated here. Or high levels discouraged in Skal, etc etc etc etc. I don't know if epics haunting low level areas warrants that or not but you can't just disregard playability because Forgotten Realms has a bunch of evil bastards in it and I think this is a discussion of the removal of guard rails and how it effects the game part of the game not how our characters should RP the result.

Not quite sure how I feel. It's nice to do easy writs to catch up. Mostly the negative-ish I've encountered is in the underdark where large and extremely overpowered parties are now regularly barreling through while your small level appropriate party is moving through it more slowly as the writ is intended. At least some of these war parties invite you to join I guess but when it happens it feels very much like they're playing a video game on easy mode. Trivializing content does matter and does have a ripple effect. I don't feel like what we're experiencing now is going to be how it is permanently though. It's so different than it used to be I would expect it to be evened out some.

More shadow rules bad, less shadow rules good.

We can't weaponize a character's mechanical weakness to use against mechanically stronger characters. That'd go against the fundamental principles of the game.

If somebody bothers with a low to mid level writ, then they probably aren't that "extremely overpowered". Befriend somebody even more "extremely overpowered" to kick them out of your turf IC if your character feels so strongly about it (srsly, this is an IC "problem" that has an IC solution).

I'm a newer player here, really appreciate the change. Was always hard to RP around the writ level difference, and also to a lesser extent to RP repeating writs. "Hard to RP" usually equates with anti-immersion so, again, good job. Perhaps the system changes will even open up other new possibilities for the devs.

I'm a newer player here, really appreciate the change. Was always hard to RP around the writ level difference, and also to a lesser extent to RP repeating writs. "Hard to RP" usually equates with anti-immersion so, again, good job. Perhaps the system changes will even open up other new possibilities for the devs.

As someone with EXTREMELY limited playtime, I'm not a fan, tbh. I get why, don't get me wrong, but I don't like it.

I had a good experience with the new system. I was heading to the Guldorand coal mine to get some coal and ran into a group of people from my settlement trying to figure out where to go for the Howling Pass writ, so I showed them the way and was able to do the dungeon with them, warn them about dangers in it, and give advice and tactics on which enemies to target first.

OverTheSeaToSkye wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:19 pm As someone with EXTREMELY limited playtime, I'm not a fan, tbh. I get why, don't get me wrong, but I don't like it.

I'm in the same boat time-wise but opposite take. The change has excelerated my leveling on my vast multitude of low level characters.

So I've been using this and it's... given me so much XP that I've literally sat there laughing at gaining a full epic level from it. I think it's actually not too bad.

I can see where there might be some issues for players who can't play often. Maybe what could mitigate this is having people willing to help people out more readily and make an effort that way. If somebody is level 30 and somebody who is level 16 is having a problem getting writs done due to time/equipment etc, hopefully somebody higher up can take them out to get it done with them, build some RP and some fun connection in the mean time.

I think this is the real benefit to this but players need to be willing to reach that hand out to the lowbies too.

I'm not going to say it's personally my favorite iteration of the writ system (my favorite iteration was when it did not exist and leveling to 30 took 3 months. Personal taste and all that) but I will say it does hit it's intended mark this time. It incentivizes chilling and RPing because you *know* you'll get to 30 before you ever run out of that 6 digits adventure exp pool you bank after 10-15 writs and doesnt benefit heavy grinders because they'll just end up at lvl 30 sitting on 400k adventure exp they will never make use of.

Instant exp rewards are insane. Hilariously high. I dont like it much, but for some reason people are just so in rush to 30 that here we are.

Remember, if you encounter higher levels who bully lowbies out of the appropriate zones, you have right to report that, and DM team will happily see the high level character reduced to the appropriate level for the content they're doing.
We expect higher levels to offer lowbies courtesy for the appropriate content, even if they're allowed in aswell. Don't bully people out, be nice, join them or otherwise be courteous.

We will not look kindly at people abusing the new system in any way. We can't see everything - but if you see abuse happen, Active DM team will happily hear about it. If it's urgent, /DM chat works on short things, but otherwise make sure you send us a report.

So if a high level is legitimately doing a low level writ and dares to have conflict with a lower level, they risk being level reduced? Can conflict not even occur with high levels in low level areas now?

I just want to be sure of the precedent being set.

I'm interested in the above question. I would also like to note that nobody is trying to say it's okay to be a bastard or engage in some kind of rule breaking PvP or the like. That is obviously bad and should be met out with some punishment like any other rulebreak.

It is okay to be a bastard! Interrupting someone's levelling shouldn't be met with a tribunal at the Hague. I feel like people are forgetting this isn't an RP-by-numbers/appointment server.

Levelling is no more or less sacred than any other activity on this server- except roleplay, which is a server rule.

Very interested to hear a reply to Zav's question.

Echoing the above.

Zavandar wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:38 pm So if a high level is legitimately doing a low level writ and dares to have conflict with a lower level, they risk being level reduced? Can conflict not even occur with high levels in low level areas now?

I just want to be sure of the precedent being set.

No, but if we see it as reoccuring issue that say, a level 20 goes to level 10 area and repeatedly forces and bullies low levels out of it, we will act. If it is unreasonable and repeated behavior.
Say, level 23 going to level 10 area and legitimately doing writ there, and through legitimate rp contlict push the lowbies out, that's fine. But if they do it every time, without any reason? Yes, we'd act. Don't be unreasonable, and don't be arse every time just because of higher level.

Basically: use your common sense, offer some courtesy and don't be unreasonable. If you're legitimately doing legitimate things, you'll be fine.

Ork wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:48 am

OverTheSeaToSkye wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:19 pm As someone with EXTREMELY limited playtime, I'm not a fan, tbh. I get why, don't get me wrong, but I don't like it.

I'm in the same boat time-wise but opposite take. The change has excelerated my leveling on my vast multitude of low level characters.

I think the idea is to get early leveling out of the way.