Overall Summons Rework [Outdated!]

[Baron Saturday]

oooo yes, can we get a pure class capstone for warlocks

Wait... Ethereal Visage and Ice Storm aren't enough? O.o

And don't forget the 10/- DR vs physical and 15/- vs respective elements!

[Preacher]

the element resist is bugged right now, the dr also seems to work only against bronze weapons. will need to test this more to make sure on the DR part however.

[Hunter548]

DR should work against any weapons, not just bronze. It's 10/-, not 10/+1 or +2

Elemental resist is working fine for my warlock.

[Urch]

Just wondering, would this summons rework include Shelgarn's Persistant Blade?

[Preacher]

Elemental resist is working fine for my warlock.

Both fire/acid or cold/electrical?

Cause my fire works but acid does not.

[Zaki_A]

Wondering if theren is news about the Undead rework yet? If so could someone post a link for me. Thanks

[Bones Mist and Moons]

Undead Reworks ...
*Bounces in his seat.*
Undead Reworks ...
*Bounces in his seat.*
Undead Reworks ...
*Bounces in his seat.*

From what Mith suggested earlier Undead Summoning Spells will only give us one undead, even with GSF. So as a high level necro you'd cast Animate Dead + Create Undead + PM Summon/Mummy Dust/Create Greater Undead = 3 Undead Summons taking up 1 Summon Slot & 2 Henchmen Slots. Even though each spell is a different level the summons will all be the same strength and type since Undead strength is progressive with our level? Am I understanding everything right or did I misunderstand?

Also, PM levels improve caster level? So if Im 7 Sorc and I take 1 PM at Lv 8, do I still get my 4th level spells? I understand how spellcaster levels stack for the Caster Level for normal spells, but do we still gain our spells per day and spells known?



PS: 1. Homonculus Familiar!!!
2. Shark Familiar (I HAVE to see what Kash does with it )
3. Your awesome Yellena. THANK YOU SO MUCH for all your hard work on the Arelith Summons. <3

[miesny_jez]

Just a question:

Was Dragon Kinght updated ?

[one day remains]

Dracolich was already changed when I upgraded the dragons.

From the above I'd assume so.

Out of curiosity is there a rough estimate of when the undead will be getting their change?

[DestroyerOTN]

Dracolich was already changed when I upgraded the dragons.

From the above I'd assume so.

Out of curiosity is there a rough estimate of when the undead will be getting their change?

Right around the time Half Life 3 is out.

[Plonkers]

1 question what the heck is the logic behind snakes being able to disable traps, i really have a hard time right now understanding this, magical or not a snake cant do that not without setting off the trap itself, if it also can open locks i will take a long long long break from this place to try and regain sanity.

[Barradoor]

I'd like to know why every mage familiar I've used has epic spell pen and every greater spell focus.

[Nulstarius]

1 question what the heck is the logic behind snakes being able to disable traps, i really have a hard time right now understanding this, magical or not a snake cant do that not without setting off the trap itself, if it also can open locks i will take a long long long break from this place to try and regain sanity.

I have to say this is vexing me as well. Not just that some creatures, magical familiars or not, can do things they clearly lack the limbs to do, but also how crazy fast their skills grow, it is a little too much over the top. Can even get some familiars to find shadow doors very early lvls now.

Another thought having witnessed the new summons in work a while now. I am really happy that the summons got fixed, especially all those useless feats they had. But it is just too easy now? Mages druids and clerics do not really have to party up anymore. You summon a water elemental, the ancient one has 20 regen a round, buff it and it wont die unless you pit it against some super boss. One buffed ancient water elemental will solo Kohlingen, it may take a while, but it will get the job done.

I am not saying "return to the days of old!" mind you, but it has never been this easy to play a spellcaster. A totem druid with mark of humility, will stride through lvls at incredible speed, and the summon and companion will take on nearly anything together and still leave you with a nice xp gain. I would suggest that it needs trimming though. It is much to powerful presently, especially compared to more mundane chars. By allowing casters to practically substitute party members by summons, partying up becomes less encouraged. I liked how Arelith spawns and monsters used to suggest that getting a party was a good idea. Now you just need a water elemental. And while I realize that partying up is ultimately the decision of the player, I rather like that the mechanics used to push you in the right direction.

[Cihparg]

So, I've understood that negative effects do actually effect all animated undead, don't they?
Usually, those pesky undeads die when affected by those negative effects.
Eventually, anyways. Then again, animated undead behave differently?

In a less hidden message; Are Barbarian summons going to be changed any?

[KregorRanger]

Now that I'm not the first one in the thread to say the emperor has no clothes…

I'm going to step up and say, the present summon rework is totally unreal, and yes, it not only makes it a cake walk for spell casters and especially ranger/druids and wizard/sorcerers to solo areas and often to PvP as well, but the abilities of some of these familiars and companions is to the point of immersion breaking.

I'm thankful that I have a ranger companion that lives more than two rounds. But really? with 17 ranger levels, my companion can run ahead and fight a half dozen giants, or wyverns, or the barbarians up in the spires, and not even take damage. I don't even have to work for it. That's not a challenge, and that's not fun.

Wizard familiars make partying with a rogue totally irrelevant. Wasn't this one of the reasons for nerfing things like Knock and Find Traps in the first place?

Stun bolts? Slow bolts? Really?

We need a middle ground here, somewhere (on the lower end) between the milk toast companions of old, and the demigods on speed dial we have now.

Giving me an Über companion that is mechanically stronger than my PC does not encourage me to pure class. Give me bonuses to the -character-, not a tagalong, to encourage me to do that. Honestly, if I'd be motivated to pure class for the sake of having effortless high level grinding, then I'm doing it for the wrong motivation.

[Urch]

While I don't like slamming people who do this kind of stuff in their spare time for everyone else (Everything you guys do, you guys deserve medals), but truly, I echo KregorRanger's statement.

If the familiar rework was to influence more people to use their familiars, how about simply changing it so that familiars give bonuses to the wizard/sorcerer when summoned (depending on the familiar type), and give them a few wizard/sorcerer spells (to emulate the share spell feat) akin to PnP? It's nice having familiars that survive, but what we have now is like trading a meerkat for Samuel L Jackson in a Crysis suit.

Also I have never understood why to give familiars disable traps and open locks abilities. Mages have spells for this. If you truly want to break locks and traps, hire a thief, or cast magic.

Still, having frogs, cats and normal familiars is fantastic. It's a lot better than the NWN choices.

[Mithradates]

I really like the new summons! I use the pixie and she's come close to dying from traps she hasn't detected, and rushing into battle. That being said, I don't find them to be invincible.

It's also really nice that I can go adventuring without a rogue. With how busy I am at times I don't want to, or simply can't find anyone to adventure with. So now I can be productive and actually play any aspect of the game anytime I want.

I honestly kind of think this is a non issue. If you don't want to go adventuring without a party, then don't. If you do, then do! I do equal amounts of soloing as I do partying, and they're both great fun.

[Cihparg]

Will have to go with that as well.

The summons ARE really powerful (But, not overly so), and familiars have silly feat and skill levels.
But the thing with familiars is, if you have ONE around you, EVERYTHING will bullrush you.
All enemies will ignore everything else, as the familiar draws all aggro to you.
Note: Enemies will see you even if you are in sanctuary/invisible.

They might be more durable, but they're also way deadly to have around.

[Plonkers]

but does that make it okay to have them like they are now. silly skills and feats it makes little sense really.

i did want to address all this but my post was.. well too blunt and i deleted it.
its okay to make them stronger as they were somewhat useless (some of them not all of them)
and since there have been so much talk about doing helpful stuff for mundane classes this did not do that, it however did the opposite, i do not hunt much bu the last few weeks i have been on several hunts with mages and they do everything themselves leaving no room for rogues or fighters.

maybe rework them so it would not make rogues and fighters "useless"

[Cihparg]

They absolutely do not make fighters useless. Familiars can do a maximum of 1 damage.
They DO however make Rogues redundant, mechanically, but this is a roleplay server, so it's up to you if or if not your familiar even knows these things.

Yes, we need nerfs to the familiar feats/skills, but that's already been addressed.
Ofcourse, because it's addressed, doesn't mean people shouldn't give in more feedback.

I don't know which mages you've been playing with, but all the one's I've seen, absolutely require that a fighter is present. Same goes for my characters.

[Nulstarius]

No one is saying Familiars makes fighters useless, summons and animal companions do. The familiars, just as said, makes rogues redundant, and it hurts ones brain to see a snake disable a trap.

If summons are not presently overpowered, then there is something wrong. I'll just say ancient water elemental soloing Kohlingen once more, including every last boss in that place, dishing out 70-80 crits left and right.

If the mages you have seen absolutely need a fighter then good, they are either partying, or have conjuration as barred school. That still does not mean you should be able to just summon a 20 hp regen pr round summon that nearly lasts forever and that can solo like 80% of the server, while you just chill invisible.

Again, I am extremely happy to see summons actually working now, having gotten rid of useless feats and getting actual useful ones. But it's a little too much.

[Plonkers]

Hey Cihparg sorry for not being more clear in what i meant.
it was meant as rogues were taken out by familiars and fighters by the summons.

[Mithradates]

*sighs*

This will just be something I'll never agree with a lot of people on. Pixie's have always had rogue abilities. Like always, since the birth of NwN. I reallly doubt this is going anywhere. It allows for versatility and flavor, and opens up the option of getting to go into dungeons that rogueless parties otherwise wouldn't be able to delve into.

Multiple classes get healing.
Multiple classes get magic
Multiple classes get summons
Multiple classes get fighting perks
Multiple classes get nature related abilities
Therefore it seem silly to vehemently oppose a familiars rogue abilities

The game is still fun and challenging, and there are always going to be those mages/fighters/rogues/healers/whatever who utilize mechanics for their benefit In combat. Just because mages are now a viable soloing option doesn't mean something is broken. Fighters and many other class have been able to do it for a loooong time.

[Nulstarius]

No one is opposing the pixie being able to do what it does? At least I can't read that anywhere in the thoughts posted on the topic.

It's a miniature bipedal winged humanoid, and it is easy to explain how that little thing would be a master of locks and traps since it just walks straight into the keyhole. The argument was made as for the fact that it is funky to see a slithering snakes cut tripping wires and pick locks with it's tail? and the other argument was made for how it's a bit funky how a lvl 5 wizard can find a shadow door because his pixie has a gazilion in the skills it needs, even at low lvls.

Also, you can not take a fighter soloing once you get up in higher lvls, not even close to the places you can take your mage. I can solo kohlingen on my mage, my fighter wouldn't make it past the serpents. you can't even begin to compare the two.

Also, you could solo with a mage before the update. the point that is being made is simply that while it is nice to see some rework done summon wise, it has made it simply too easy to play a caster character, be it druid, cleric, wizard or sorcerer.

[KregorRanger]

Also, you could solo with a mage before the update. the point that is being made is simply that while it is nice to see some rework done summon wise, it has made it simply too easy to play a caster character, be it druid, cleric, wizard or sorcerer.

Or Ranger. The companions for them are just as beastly, and the additional PC combat ability tilts the scale to ridiculous at high levels all the more.