Arelith

Baron Saturday
Check the spell list again - Feylocks get Ethereal Visage at 19.

Mith

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 19  Ethereal Visage (5)    Cat's Grace (2)
  20  Confusion (3)          War Cry (4) 
  21  Improved Invis (4)     Summon Creature (5)
  22
  23           Greater Dispelling (5)
  24                           
  25  Dirge (6)               Summon Creature (6)
  26                       
  27
  28  Mass Haste (6)       Ice Storm (6)

What I'm refering too is not the addition of ethereal visage as, as you've noted, they already have it. What I'm suggesting is a "swap" of the two spells, that being said I'd also suggest the swapping of mass haste for Improved Invis at that point so it'd be more like:

19 Improved Invis (5) Cat's Grace (2)
20 Confusion (3) War Cry (4)
21 Mass haste (4) Summon Creature (5)
22
23 Greater Dispelling (5)
24
25 Dirge (6) Summon Creature (6)
26
27
28 Ethereal Visage (6) Ice Storm (6)

The class will have unlimited displacement and will have unlimited invisibility on the remake, so improved invis wont be too big a buff at slightly lower levels.

Baron Saturday wrote:I would push for Sound Burst on the Fiendlock list, replacing, say, Balagarn's - which, as a non-targeted spell, isn't going to proc the blast damage. Plus, Sound Burst seems to better fit the concept of the Fiendlock as an offensive caster.

I'm also a bit dubious about cat's grace at level 19, but have no idea what I'd put there instead. It just seems... out of place.

It does seem like quite a contrast in power between Fey and Fiend at that level as ethereal is somewhat better than a level 19 cats grace. In addition I do kinda agree that what with ice storm being put at higher levels it may be good to add a damaging spell such as sound burst to the fiend lock to compensate a little (since they're a summon/damage based pact and fey is a control/self buff based pact).

I don't think the level 5 spells are worth giving to level five. I'd suggest just giving them at level 1, then shuffling things forwards a bit. By level 5, minor wounds is losing effectiveness fast. I also feel either haste or ghostly could be shuffled down a little bit. Normal bards already have both by this point and have had them for quite a while- haste especially, seems far too high up the list. I would at least swap haste and hold monster, if not make it earlier still.

Fiend pacts seem to warrant perhaps something better than cats grace, which is an extremely minor spell and easily replaceable through potions.

Otherwise I like it and can't wait.

Why not make cats grace accessible earlier by removing magic circle against alignment and replacing it with cats.

Then the current cats grace can be replaced with wounding whispers which will also be added to the summon in the same sense war-cry is? It keeps things summon base and adds a little defence to fiends.

What about stuff like maximize, (automatic) quicken, empower? Will those work for the spells as usual? I could see a fiendish warlock blasting the living hell out of just about everything with automatic quicken I and II.

EDIT: Btw, I love how this makes just about every spellschool reasonable for warlocks. I was a bit skeptic but it looks amazing on second thought

Bards (warlocks) cant' get automatic metamagic as they can't cast 9th level spells.

At the moment "Quickened spell" is the only meta-magic that'll affect the bard's damage. Unless Sound burst is added. The current damaging spells available will be too high in spell level to be affected by maximised, the same with empowered.

As Nitro says, warlocks are incapable of getting auto meta-magic feats due to never getting ninth level spells.

So basically, extend spell remains the only viable meta-magic feat. Lovely!

Well yes and no. It'd be an added bonus but... You CAN cast infinitely. The only really worthwhile 2 spells for a fiendlock are see invis and darkness. The rest are all pretty long duration or you're spamming them.

Fey it's worth while for because of all the holds, haste and so on.

Quicken spell is still good, for Fiendlocks at least - quickened Flare, for example, will give a Fiendlock double blast damage.

- I agree on Ethereal Visage and will make that the finisher for Feylocks.
- Haste and Cure Minor appear relatively late on the lists for their level, because both are far far more useful when castable infinitely than they are as limited-shots. Cure Minor, in particular, means you only need healing kits for mid battle - and can put yourself to full after every encounter (albeit slowly - like a regenerative trance).
- I've tried to avoid explicitly bardic spells (Wounding Whispers, Sound Burst). You could make a case that feylocks could have song stuff, but (a) they have enough already and (b) bards IG trade their singing voice for their Warlock power, so giving them song stuff makes little sense.
- It's intentional that not every level gives a new level-appropriate powerful spell. Think about normal casters, they often get new low level spells when progressing. Cat's Grace at 19 just fills out a slot and provides another small bonus (to the caster and their summon). It's not meant to rock the world.

Mindcraft wrote:So basically, extend spell remains the only viable meta-magic feat. Lovely!

Empower is also quite good on this setup: since you have infinite castings of your spells and no annoying cooldown to deal with, you can trigger your stat buffs with Empower until you get +7 STR/DEX/CHA. This is especially relevant for fiendish warlocks, with their summons.

And regarding early fiendlock targeted spells: there's lesser dispel right out of the gate, and bestow curse pretty early; they aren't quite the "I win" buttons that a hold person is, but they also have the virtue of working on non humanoid targets and having an appreciable effect in removing buffs or dropping stats.

Yeah is Magic Circle still in there? No aura spells ever. Extremely situational at best, utterly worthless 99% of the time.

Actually of absolutely no use, given that the fiend warlock also gets infinite protection from alignment. The two spells have the same effect, but the magic circle has the problem of bugging out due to aura nonsense.

Spammy dirge might be somewhat useful, but yes, invis sphere and magic circle vs alignment duplicate spells that are already on their respective caster's spell lists, in a less buggy fashion.

Sure, I can pull those.

Aren't fiendlocks supposed to get grease?

Hamatreya wrote:Aren't fiendlocks supposed to get grease?

Wow, yeah, did not notice Grease was missing. In that case, heck with Sound Burst - I'd vote to drop Balagarn's for Grease (I may have a slight case of the hates for Balagarn's.).

Balagarn's might be better for Fey Warlocks, since they're meant to be in the thick of it, rather than sniping from behind cover, especially if it were to benefit from Spell Focus.

Whoops, they're still meant to get Grease. Good spot. Added it at level 5 (alongside Resistance).

Can I just get something clarified (as I plot out a possible build in my excitement)?
Am I correct in assuming the blasts are no longer ranged touch attacks, given that they accompany spells now?/

Any hostile spell that targets an individual will now have a ranged touch attack. If successful, you'll get the normal spell effects, and additional blast damage.

Other spells are not affected. Hostile spells cast on the ground are not affected. (But an AoE spell will be if you target it at an enemy).

So no more chain/AoE blasts. It's limited to single-target only?

Correct.

Kinda wondering... Would these spells add piety for magic domain deities?

Yes, casting any non healing spell does that.

And cure minor would boost hearth and home deities.