Arelith

I can only assume that the recent change to the appraise skill was made to prevent people from making 'appraise runs' of buying items from one NPC and selling them to another NPC for a profit, allowing the acquisition of sizable fortunes without RP or risk.

Irongron wrote:APPRAISE SKILL

The Appraise skill will no longer affect the how much one buys goods for when dealing with an NPC merchant.

I agree that something has needed to be done about the ability make huge piles of gold on 'appraise runs', but this is completely the wrong way to go about it. This change will without question put a stop to that, but it also completely screws over huge portions of the playerbase that were not abusing the system.

In one move you have made it so that no player can sell any item sold by npcs in their shop because everyone gets them for the same price. This completely ruins any character that was built with high appraise and your counter balance requires that they either have high search or that they panhandle on the streets to sell other people's loot at a split profit.

A proper solution for 'appraise runs' would require making sure that no items can be bought from an npc and sold to another npc for profit. In most cases that would mean if an NPC sells it then NPCs don't buy it. Exceptions would have to be bought for less then the lowest possible sale price. I know that this would take a great deal more work then the update that was just pushed, but this update harms more people then it helps.

It's kinda great. The age of the portal lenses are over.

Agreed! I had put 18 (planned to put 20) skill points into appraise just to make my casual play affordable IG. Now...My epic character can't afford to be epic. NPC loot was clearly lowered for your average player, and profit is dependent on carrying weight. This forces appraise characters or weakling parties to seek out a mule to carry everything. That is IF they have the open space in their inventory.

If not...Wave bye-bye to profits! In 2 laps of Duergars, I made a total of 5k GP (7k after heads and jewelry). I spent about that much in supplies and spell components. If I had had a party using their own components and supplies, we would NEVER be able to make a noticeable profit unless we have more than 3 hours a day to spend on the game

More shops? Less items to stock them with unless you can log in every 2+ hours to craft.

And portal lenses were already nerfed. And now they are nerfed AND more expensive.

Casual players lament.

viper92225 wrote: In one move you have made it so that no player can sell any item sold by npcs in their shop because everyone gets them for the same price.

Good.

iria_huntress wrote: More shops? Less items to stock them with unless you can log in every 2+ hours to craft.

I know, god forbid you should have to RP with crafting PCs and form a supply chain.

Yes. We ALL have enough time to RP plot AND RP filling shops. None of us have RL jobs and lives, and we can all certainly spend 4-6 hours a day in the game keeping up with all of that.

If you don't have enough time to fill up a shop with non-vendor items, sell or give the shop to someone else?

So has anyone pointed out a flaw in this update, or are we just here listing positives?

Scurvy Cur wrote:So has anyone pointed out a flaw in this update, or are we just here listing positives?

Deep Imaskari?

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:

Scurvy Cur wrote:So has anyone pointed out a flaw in this update, or are we just here listing positives?

Deep Imaskari?

He said flaws, not positives.

Next we're going to add lythari. Mark my words.

iria_huntress wrote:Yes. We ALL have enough time to RP plot AND RP filling shops. None of us have RL jobs and lives, and we can all certainly spend 4-6 hours a day in the game keeping up with all of that.

So you're complaining about having to actually do something to fill your shop instead of just buying things off of NPCs and then reselling them?

If you have nothing to sell and no time to acquire anything, get rid of the shop.

Trunx wrote:

iria_huntress wrote:Yes. We ALL have enough time to RP plot AND RP filling shops. None of us have RL jobs and lives, and we can all certainly spend 4-6 hours a day in the game keeping up with all of that.

So you're complaining about having to actually do something to fill your shop instead of just buying things off of NPCs and then reselling them?

If you have nothing to sell and no time to acquire anything, get rid of the shop.

Or you know, have 2 or 3 people that can add inventory!

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:Next we're going to add lythari. Mark my words.

dude deep imaskari are a brilliant race to add and VERY easy to justify, esp compared to imps

Also, I really like the new Sharps' merchant's dialog tree!

As a casual player running a shop, I love this change.

Just throwing that out there.

As a casual player who often spends over an hour running from player shop to player shop to find one item (unsuccessfully) as it is, this update feels very much the opposite of good.

So, all you people praising it...start stocking your shops with useful things. I haven't seen a mundane "magic "staff in a shop for ages. I don't consider dungeon loot (generally trash) stocking a shop. Don't even get me started on tracking down carpenters. It took me a solid week before I found a PC tailor to make spell component pouches to stock in their shop.

Leave messages on boards, check with players who may know where to find them, I know of like six tailors and four carpenters. They can be found.

this update

iria_huntress wrote:As a casual player who often spends over an hour running from player shop to player shop to find one item (unsuccessfully) as it is, this update feels very much the opposite of good.

So, all you people praising it...start stocking your shops with useful things. I haven't seen a mundane "magic "staff in a shop for ages. I don't consider dungeon loot (generally trash) stocking a shop. Don't even get me started on tracking down carpenters. It took me a solid week before I found a PC tailor to make spell component pouches to stock in their shop.

You don't see how what you're saying is just a little bit contradictory?

By getting rid of appraise shops that sell the exact same things as NPCs standing next to them do, there will be more shops that sell things like staffs and other carpentry items. How does removing appraise shops hinder your ability to find useful things like spell component pouches in the least?

What I was saying was somewhat off topic. But yes, crafters can be hard to come by. Try finding a drow carpenter (or just a carpenter who lives in Andunor) on at any given hour of the day. There might be one or two who do it out of necessity. But they certainly aren't on often enough to be easily accessed.

My real problem is seeing how the appraise part of the update creates fun for the majority of people it affects. Not just pleasing people who want to see others punished. That just seems counter to the whole spirit of "have fun". If those resell shops weren't pulling a profit (because a LOT of people bought from them), they wouldn't persist. They would be replaced by what we had a year ago. A LOT of shops filled with not so great or useful loot from dungeons. And a LOT more overpriced artefacts. Though there will probably be a few new shops that are great. At least I REALLY hope.

I don't own any of those shops anymore. Haven't in months. I am not making this argument for my sake. I play a weavemaster. I can find a way to turn a profit while using minimal supplies. Most involve soloing. Taking 4 people to Duergars will result in a net loss, now. Taking 2 is barely profitable. So SOME of these last few changes have done nothing but encourage me to go solo, rather than with a party like I prefer.

iria_huntress wrote: My real problem is seeing how the appraise part of the update creates fun for the majority of people it affects. Not just pleasing people who want to see others punished. That just seems counter to the whole spirit of "have fun". If those resell shops weren't pulling a profit (because a LOT of people bought from them), they wouldn't persist. They would be replaced by what we had a year ago. A LOT of shops filled with not so great or useful loot from dungeons. And a LOT more overpriced artefacts. Though there will probably be a few new shops that are great. At least I REALLY hope.

No one is saying the resell shops weren't profitable. Of course they were. There was no reason to buy things from NPCs if you could buy them cheaper from a PC shop. But it was bad design and made no sense.

Made no sense? Ever hear of wholesale? NPC merchants basically served that purpose. And players could be merchants and craft a few items they knew would sell, take orders for items that took more work (and sold less often), and fill in the gaps with wholesale items like a retail outlet. Many of those shops that resold NPC items also sold crafted items.

How does that make no sense?

I remember several shops that were right outside a merchant, selling the same goods as the merchant but at a reduced price. That always seemed incredibly silly to me, so this change is much welcome to me.

iria_huntress wrote:Made no sense? Ever hear of wholesale? NPC merchants basically served that purpose. And players could be merchants and craft a few items they knew would sell, take orders for items that took more work (and sold less often), and fill in the gaps with wholesale items like a retail outlet. Many of those shops that resold NPC items also sold crafted items.

How does that make no sense?

mass production isn't really a thing in this era and requires an impressive array of people and suppliers to perform as a pc

haulfest probably isn't secretly running a sweatshop of child slaves to churn out healing kits (though this would be an impressive twist).

Kuma wrote:haulfest probably isn't secretly running a sweatshop of child slaves to churn out healing kits (though this would be an impressive twist).

I wouldn't put it past the triadists to do this...

I really wouldn't.