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PvP Death System
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:04 pm
by Stath
Lmao. Who thought it was a good idea to make anyone wait in the fugue for nearly half an hour to respawn? I can kind of see where this update is coming from, at least i think. Is the purpose to make people more willing to accept a raise and actually roleplay with people instead of denying the raise? What's probably going to happen is that people will just log out for 20 mins until they can go through the soul gate.
If you thought people were pvp adverse earlier, just watch them now. It's basically going to become even more taboo to bash a corpse even if your character has a good reason. Speaking of, why is there a huge focus on mechanics and "balancing" for pvp?
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:08 pm
by One Two Three Five
Man, good thing I'm between characters, or else I'd be furious.
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:14 pm
by Mr_Rieper
After every update, without fail.
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:25 pm
by JediMindTrix
I like it! But I too would like to know the motivation/rationale behind the change!
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:29 pm
by FairyTaleBiscuit
My main fear is that this will discourage new players at lower levels who are attacked and killed by say.. the level 30 roaming bands in the brambles, that I'm afraid people won't bother. Being punished for being a new char and dieing to sit there for 20 mins is wrong.
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:30 pm
by Cortex
FairyTaleBiscuit wrote:My main fear is that this will discourage new players at lower levels who are attacked and killed by say.. the level 30 roaming bands in the brambles, that I'm afraid people won't bother. Being punished for being a new char and dieing to sit there for 20 mins is wrong.
Not having +2 AC armor until epics is more punishing and discouraging than this will ever be.
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:02 am
by Ork
I think the main frustration for me is that the onus of punishment for bad players now falls on everyone, instead of proactive DM management. I understand that everyone is doing this for fun, but some people don't deserve to play in this sandbox.
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:18 am
by Shadofury
I always thought it was our sort of job as good players to help the bad players get better?
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:20 am
by Flameborn
This is a horrible change, incentivising the "Win all the time" mentality that has proven so detrimental to rp.
As death becomes more annoying, people will move further toward cheese tactics that avoid death. Grinding up to 30 faster, moving in bigger gank squads, and using the new penalties to keep whoever they don't like down for potentially dozens of hours.
Arelith doesnt have a problem with people running out and dying in pvp a lot. Arelith has a problem with the same people rolling up the most powerful builds they possibly can and roaming in groups to kill other roleplayers for little to no reason.
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:21 am
by Shadofury
Flameborn wrote:
Arelith doesnt have a problem with people running out and dying in pvp a lot. Arelith has a problem with the same people rolling up the most powerful builds they possibly can and roaming in groups to kill other roleplayers for little to no reason.
Then maybe those people should be the ones reported so the dms can have a little talk with them
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:31 am
by Dean
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:32 am
by METAL BAWKSES
same
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:33 am
by Flameborn
Dean made me feel better about the situation. Those photoshop skills
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:41 am
by DM Noxt
JediMindTrix wrote:I like it! But I too would like to know the motivation/rationale behind the change!
The 20 minute timer is there to prevent the extreme awkwardness of someone being killed and then returning to the same place (or near the same place) a few minutes later while the RP is still going on. E.g., a criminal kills a Cordorian guard Joe, a lot of people see it, they inform the other guards that Joe has been murdered, those guards confront the criminal over Joe's body, and while the tense RP and cries of murder are going on, Joe walks past everyone. Variations of this scene were common. Twenty minutes gives the aftermath RP time to play out.
Logging out for the duration is fine, of course. No one should be getting killbashed frequently enough for the wait time to become a serious problem.
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:55 am
by Quoth
The 20 minutes CD respawn is fine. your character is out of the picture to allow the aftermath of PvP to play out. Makes sense and can completely get behind it however the rest of this punishment script (because it adds nothing but punishment) however isn't explained by that reasoning.
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:59 am
by Durvayas
"PVP deaths will have a (characterlevel / 3) * 2 * PVPDeathCounter, ingame hour death penalty"
So now the more toxic elements of the server have even more incentive to use gank squads to killbash people they don't like, and the system actively encourages this new form of griefing. Since if you can successfully organize a PvP campaign over time(easy, thanks to the 24 hour rule, and the fact this system takes 4+ days to reset), you can almost effortlessly ensure that any time your group ganks someone, they stay unable to respawn for 1 hour, and then carry the full death penalty debuff for(Lets calculate it. Lets say ((lvl30)/3)*2*4)=)80 ticks( and its 10 ticks an hour) so.... up to 8 RL hours.
Powerbuilding is not even more attractive and this new system will possibly result in more corpsebashing than we had before the last death changes. DMs, be ready for even more reports after PvP, as rules of engagement violations and 1 line RP before PvP are even more rewarding than they've ever been before.
Its never been easier to make it agony for another player to play their character after ganking them than it is today. At high level PvP, you can convince any player with a job to just hang up their PC for the day. 1 hour to respawn and then up to 8 before you can dungeon normally with stats, and god forbid you get jumped by another PC for PvP during those 8 hours.
How do you think this isn't going to be rampantly abused when you can instigate PvP at any point almost half a week after the fact to make things worse for the victim of a ganking?
Edited to take a more neutral tone.
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:06 am
by caldura firebourne
Durvayas wrote:"PVP deaths will have a (characterlevel / 3) * 2 * PVPDeathCounter, ingame hour death penalty"
Cool. So now the people with the meme PvP builds and cliques have even more incentive to use gank squads to killbash people they don't like, and the system actively encourages this new form of griefing. Since if you can successfully organize a PvP campaign over time(easy, thanks to the 24 hour rule, and the fact this system takes 4+ days to reset), you can almost effortlessly ensure that any time your group ganks someone, they stay unable to respawn for 1 hour, and then carry the full death penalty debuff for(hmm, lets calculate it. Lets say ((lvl30)/3)*2*4)=)80 ticks( and its 10 ticks an hour) so.... up to 8 RL hours.
Thats right folks, say goodbye to RP builds entirely, say goodbye to non-cheesy PvP and say hello to even more corpsebashing than we had before the last death changes. DMs, be ready for even more reports after PvP than before the last change, as rules of engagement violations and 1 line RP before PvP are even more rewarding than they've ever been before.
Its never been easier to make it agony for another player to play their character after ganking them than it is today. At high level PvP, you can convince any player with a job to just hang up their PC for the day. 1 hour to respawn and then up to 8 before you can dungeon normally with stats, and god forbid you get jumped by another PC for PvP during those 8 hours.
I don't normally say this, but really, what the hell are you people thinking? How do you think this isn't going to be rampantly abused when you can instigate PvP at any point almost half a week after the fact to make things worse for the victim of a ganking?
That's a bit of an overexaggeration, my experience with most of the playerbase doesn't lead me to conclude that a large enough portion are cheesy A-holes with nothing better to do than ruin someone else's day
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:16 am
by Quoth
Doesn't matter if it's at most or 1-6 players. The fact a punishment script was introduced and this clearly wasn't accounted for as it was just given the typical of don't be a jerk like the subdue script was given.
If it was accounted for I'd have to repeat Durvayas and ask what you were thinking by implementing this at all because past the CD on respawn this offers nothing to anyone
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:27 am
by Astral
On the bright side! After so many updates it will take few months for the dedicated munchkins here to break down the new meta so we got a time window to play weak characters before we run back to our shelved cliché powerbuilds with +5 ecl and +20 heal on gear.
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:27 am
by Manabi
Stath wrote:Lmao. I can kind of see where this update is coming from.
It's basically going to become even more taboo to bash a corpse.
Well said.
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:46 am
by Lorkas
I don't know how you people's RP builds get in PvP so often. It's a really rare occurrence for me, even on my characters that are more warlike.
Don't you guys know how to beg for your lives?!?!
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:21 am
by Meliboeus
DM Noxt wrote:JediMindTrix wrote:I like it! But I too would like to know the motivation/rationale behind the change!
The 20 minute timer is there to prevent the extreme awkwardness of someone being killed and then returning to the same place (or near the same place) a few minutes later while the RP is still going on. E.g., a criminal kills a Cordorian guard Joe, a lot of people see it, they inform the other guards that Joe has been murdered, those guards confront the criminal over Joe's body, and while the tense RP and cries of murder are going on, Joe walks past everyone. Variations of this scene were common. Twenty minutes gives the aftermath RP time to play out.
Logging out for the duration is fine, of course. No one should be getting killbashed frequently enough for the wait time to become a serious problem.
This makes sense. Though it might be nice to expand the death area to make it a more interesting place to RP if we're going to be sitting there for a while.
What I don't understand is why there is a need to differentiate PVP and PVE death penalties. Conceptually this makes no sense. If a character is defeated by a dragon or a player they should be equally debilitated whilst recovering.
Giving PVP greater mechanical consequences for the losing party will just increase the OOC animosity caused by PVP. Which is the last thing we need.
Edit: To put it a slightly different way, it seems fundamentally unfair to punish a player who has already had the misfortune of losing at least two PVP encounters
that they may neither have instigated nor wanted in a short space of time. What is the rationale?
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:21 am
by Nitro
DM Noxt wrote:JediMindTrix wrote:I like it! But I too would like to know the motivation/rationale behind the change!
The 20 minute timer is there to prevent the extreme awkwardness of someone being killed and then returning to the same place (or near the same place) a few minutes later while the RP is still going on. E.g., a criminal kills a Cordorian guard Joe, a lot of people see it, they inform the other guards that Joe has been murdered, those guards confront the criminal over Joe's body, and while the tense RP and cries of murder are going on, Joe walks past everyone. Variations of this scene were common. Twenty minutes gives the aftermath RP time to play out.
Logging out for the duration is fine, of course. No one should be getting killbashed frequently enough for the wait time to become a serious problem.
Alright, I can get that. But the bolded part is what I have issue with. When part of your design is encouraging players to log out and do something else to solve the boredom of being locked away for 20 minutes it feels to me like you've taken a step in the wrong direction.
If there was actually something to do in the death area I'd be more cool with it, I'd even be more alright with it if we got RPR ticks in the labyrinth but right now it's just a big empty area where we can't really do anything.
I'd also be quite interested to hear what the rationale behind the increased length of death weakness from PVP is.
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:43 am
by dirza
20 minutes is nothing terrible.
Make a coffee. Go out get ice cream, or just peek on youtube....what is tragic, are 8 hrs long IG penalties.
Re: PvP Death System
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:48 am
by Rwby
Play alts.
Play lots and lots of alts.
