Arelith

On the Arelith wiki, it says Harper Priests get the Divine Might and Divine Shield feats. However, I've always thought that only the Harper Paragon gets these.
The forum thread does not say they get them either.

That's a huge buff if so! Maybe they got it to replace the old removal of armour slow I think they used to have?

Paragon's still objectively better though, as they have grace.

I probably had a tiny stroke while writing the new tables and got the information of paragon and priest mixed up a little.

So, yes, harper priests are still lame and I don't think they get divine shield and might. They probably should, though.

Damn~. I had in mind a parrot totem druid/harper priest combination.

Can still go harper paragon. Use divine might and all that jazz.

Iceborn wrote:I probably had a tiny stroke while writing the new tables and got the information of paragon and priest mixed up a little.

Thought so. Just wanted to make sure. No worries!

Iceborn wrote:So, yes, harper priests are still lame and I don't think they get divine shield and might. They probably should, though.

Honestly, I think all Harper Scout sub-classes should be revised. Currently, the only one worth picking is Harper Paragon, and maybe Harper Mage in a few cases. But I guess that's old news.

Two feats and twenty-two skill points just to lose out on getting a dump class.

Oh, that means a sorcerer would use thirty-eight skill points to be a harper.

...yeah, it could use some revising. A lack of accessibility can make something unappealing to even the best of roleplayers who just prefer certain kinds of builds for their characters.

Paragons are super good though.

They get the two feats back and don't require power attack to grab might and shield (so, really they're up one feat)

That also means no strength requirement for might + shield. So you can easily bump int a little more to compensate for the skill points.

Then you tag on a little favoured enemy boost which is nice.

Plus, it's a superior choice for casters over pala/bg as it also adds CL.

Though, it would be nice to see them evened out!

EDIT: I forgot to add, take the HS in epic and you can grab G dex / G CHA, ESF's etc. So, you get 2 free epic feats, making it even better!

and yet it's still not enough to convince many to play one

Afaik Harpers are more policed than Paladins (Which is odd to me; especially as Harpers betray each other every other day!) but that likely has a lot to do with it!

Sockss wrote:Afaik Harpers are more policed

?

I think Sockss means that Harpers need the token instead of... nothing at all.

You can make it a lot longer as a shitty paladin than you can as a shitty harper. The DMs watch the latter way more closely. If you're a bad paladin they tend just to assume you're doing your best, and that they shouldn't punish you for having snacked on paint chips as an infant.

Harper Paragon is indeed quite strong (I'd argue too strong), and synergizes best with Sorcerer and Bard.

The rest of the classes are pretty lackluster, though.

Peppermint wrote:Harper Paragon is indeed quite strong (I'd argue too strong), and synergizes best with Sorcerer and Bard.

The rest of the classes are pretty lackluster, though.

*is playing a sorcerer/bard*

Harper paths are much nicer than people are giving them credit for, especially for casters. Harper paths are literally the only way someone on the server can play a "Pure Caster" with 30 effective caster levels while still gaining access to the discipline skill, for one.

I'm surprised more caster-inclined players haven't steam-rolled into this combination with glee, to be honest.

Efficiency and roleplay, I suspect. You only lose 3-4 caster levels for that bard dump, and keep several of your epic bonus feats. Most epic mage builds I've seen run pretty feat heavy in epics. Hell, pre-epic too. It's doable, of course, but less feat-efficient than the bard dump.

And you also have to roleplay a harper/qualify for the token with roleplay. You're not just Some Dude with special additional magic powers. Bard doesn't have that restriction.

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote:Harper paths are much nicer than people are giving them credit for, especially for casters. Harper paths are literally the only way someone on the server can play a "Pure Caster" with 30 effective caster levels while still gaining access to the discipline skill, for one.

I'm surprised more caster-inclined players haven't steam-rolled into this combination with glee, to be honest.

I played one briefly, and wasn't hugely impressed with it. Full caster levels w/ discipline was nice, but the benefits from the harper class itself weren't hugely impressive. Autoquicken one isn't terrible, but eschew materials was pretty minor, as was the "vote everywhere" thing. Giving up three feats for it was the bad part.

It wasn't terrible the way that, say, Harper Priest or the base scout varient are, but I wasn't hugely impressed with it either. The CL increase doesn't seem all that relevent after ~20ish either, to be honest, unless you're planning to spam meteor swarm (Which wasn't buffed to be a factor, when I was playing my harper mage). That was my take on it, anyways.


I'm not saying it's bad persay, and harper RP is fun, but it didn't amaze me the way paragon and wild mage do.

Right. You're giving up several feats and UMD to spring for the other harper paths. Generally speaking, it's just not worth the trade off.