Arelith

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=14404#p120111

What do you guys think of my suggestion here?

My own experience playing slaves is that you need to be very lucky or have an OOC arrangement with someone you trust, which I don't think is ideal.

i'm tellin' maerwen that you don't like her anymore

Cortex wrote:My own experience playing slaves is that you need to be very lucky or have an OOC arrangement with someone you trust, which I don't think is ideal.

Exactly, and sometimes real life gets in the way. It's why removing it, or making it more reliant on RP, than mechanics, is ideal.

You should probably be aware that with a slave collar, all you need to do to be rid of your 'master' is to stop playing your character for two weeks. After this time, you can approach the slavemaster of andunor, and he'll reclaim you, and you can be bought by someone new.

If I recall correctly, this was implemented as a failsafe to be rid of lame duck masters who vanish, or are utterly inattentive to their slaves, allowing dedicated slave players to pick up new owners.

Yes, slavery RP relies on OOC consent for the sake of both parties having fun. As for it not being easy to back out of, thats simply not true. A DM can help you in and out of collars in dire situations, up to and including resetting your slave status entirely.

Quite simply? If you want to be a slave but are planning on getting free shortly, go with the prisoner collar. Or... use the FOIG method of getting the collar removed via a questline to be found in the slave pits of Andunor. Its not hard. The fastest I've seen it done was a couple of weeks at most.

Durvayas wrote:You should probably be aware that with a slave collar, all you need to do to be rid of your 'master' is to stop playing your character for two weeks. After this time, you can approach the slavemaster of andunor, and he'll reclaim you, and you can be bought by someone new.

If I recall correctly, this was implemented as a failsafe to be rid of lame duck masters who vanish, or are utterly inattentive to their slaves, allowing dedicated slave players to pick up new owners.

Yes, slavery RP relies on OOC consent for the sake of both parties having fun. As for it not being easy to back out of, thats simply not true. A DM can help you in and out of collars in dire situations, up to and including resetting your slave status entirely.

Quite simply? If you want to be a slave but are planning on getting free shortly, go with the prisoner collar. Or... use the FOIG method of getting the collar removed via a questline to be found in the slave pits of Andunor. Its not hard. The fastest I've seen it done was a couple of weeks at most.

That is absolutely terrible for a player to have to stop playing their character in order to ditch shitty situations, and honestly, another reason for the mechanical reasons to be ditched. Why punish your fellow player?

Why create work for the DM team to sort out?

Just let it all be handled in game.

Diiiiiid you miss the bit where I mentioned you CAN get free in a couple of weeks easily via the in-game quest? What I'm pointing out here, is that there are a multitude of options available to you, three of which do not require logging off for two weeks.

-Do the quest(takes a little time).
-Pay the fee.(With help from IC allies, this is almost trivial)
-Ask a DM(If your timing is good, you can be found by a DM and fixed in under an hour).

Durvayas wrote:Diiiiiid you miss the bit where I mentioned you CAN get free in a couple of weeks easily via the in-game quest? What I'm pointing out here, is that there are a multitude of options available to you, three of which do not require logging off for two weeks.

-Do the quest(takes a little time).
-Pay the fee.(With help from IC allies, this is almost trivial)
-Ask a DM(If your timing is good, you can be found by a DM and fixed in under an hour).

The main point is: why use this system when slavery already relies on OOC consent for it to function properly? It is unnecessary, useless, and all it seems to be is a great source for OOC dissatisfaction.

What do the mechanics behind it actually add?

Being a mechanical slave grants -un if I'm not mistaken, as well as suppressing the drow raider random spawns and allowing use of the hub portal... not to mention granting the (slave) tag that sends an automatic signal to people about how to interact with your character. It's maybe not much RPwise, but there are mechanical effects.

All it does is add slave to your name, which, again. Is something that could be clarified by a simple NPC update that doesn't mechanically affect your character. (Or even better, just saying that you are a slave to x person! Doesn't even need a NPC involved, just roleplay!)

It does not: provide undercommon, protection from the drow ganksquads, or lower faerzress madness.

Pavor Nocturnus wrote:

Durvayas wrote:Diiiiiid you miss the bit where I mentioned you CAN get free in a couple of weeks easily via the in-game quest? What I'm pointing out here, is that there are a multitude of options available to you, three of which do not require logging off for two weeks.

-Do the quest(takes a little time).
-Pay the fee.(With help from IC allies, this is almost trivial)
-Ask a DM(If your timing is good, you can be found by a DM and fixed in under an hour).

The main point is: why use this system when slavery already relies on OOC consent for it to function properly? It is unnecessary, useless, and all it seems to be is a great source for OOC dissatisfaction.

What do the mechanics behind it actually add?

-Nearly free(just 500gp) teleporting of slaves to any slave caller for ease of summoning for RP.
-IC records of who owns who, with your owner displayed via examine in your description.
-Use of the Andunor hub portal for slaves, free, no outcast status required.
-Use of the exclusive slave quarters in the slave pits area.
-A secret refuge specifically for slave characters, only accessible by them.
-The slave escape questline gives a nifty reward item.


The system is hardly a detriment, aside from not being able to get free easily, as slavery is not, and should not, be something someone can get into one day, and out the next willy nilly. It needs to mean something.

I have an idea. Make slaves like quarters. If you aren't active after a certain amount of time passes, you lose your slave. An objection is that people can exploit this with the same means as quarterlogging, but I think a key difference is that quarters can't report exploits.

This already does happen, but, again.

I don't see what this system adds that cannot be dealt with, interacted with, icly and without mechanics?

If it was easier to remove slave collars, every spy/surfacer in Andunor would just collar themselves and enjoy complete freedom before leaving Andunor and taking the collar off as soon as they leave.

Traitor wrote:This already does happen, but, again.

I don't see what this system adds that cannot be dealt with, interacted with, icly and without mechanics?

I've always seen the slavery system as an arranged marriage. When you know you're forced to submit you might just find yourself teaching yourself to enjoy it, however like arranged marriages that doesn't always happen.

Without the system, I feel people will bail too early.

Cerk Evermoore wrote:If it was easier to remove slave collars, every spy/surfacer in Andunor would just collar themselves and enjoy complete freedom before leaving Andunor and taking the collar off as soon as they leave.

This could, and likely does happen.

Slavery isn't just an aspect of the UD either because of SIbayad.

Roleplay is what determines safety or risk. Not a mechanical status. A slave can still be a spy, a slave can be called out for being a spy, - all of that requires player initiative.

Cerk Evermoore wrote:If it was easier to remove slave collars, every spy/surfacer in Andunor would just collar themselves and enjoy complete freedom before leaving Andunor and taking the collar off as soon as they leave.

I dunno, the slave collar doesn't stop PVP-happy yahoos from assuming a character is a spy and no-RP killing them on sight, rather than... you know, actually trying to RP with them and find out if they are a spy.

To touch on this too, does not allow for slavery RP to be debated or utilized elsewhere. Mechanical slavery, takes away from this.

Many cultures in FR are slave or slave-like practicing systems.

cptcuddlepants wrote:I dunno, the slave collar doesn't stop PVP-happy yahoos from assuming a character is a spy and no-RP killing them on sight, rather than... you know, actually trying to RP with them and find out if they are a spy.

If this happens to somebody, report it. "No-RP kill-on-sight" is an obvious disregard for the rules.

Rule 2 wrote:"Combat actions and political actions (using our Citizenship System) against other PC's (PvP) MUST BE INTERACTIVELY ROLE PLAYED. That means you interact, they interact, etc: BEFORE any action occurs. No exceptions."

Even if they are disguised, give the DMs that name. They can find them. They can't react as easily if reports aren't made. Additionally, experiences that you feel were sketchy or bending "Rule 4: Be Nice" can and should be reported.

Traitor wrote:What do you guys think of my suggestion here?

I agree that the slavery system needs work. I hope that it is given due thought soon.

Traitor wrote:To touch on this too, does not allow for slavery RP to be debated or utilized elsewhere. Mechanical slavery, takes away from this.

Many cultures in FR are slave or slave-like practicing systems.

This is a fair point, and one that the module already recognizes, since there's a slave clamper outside of the UD. In fact one of the most active slaver PCs was not UD-based at all for much of her existence.

cptcuddlepants wrote:

Cerk Evermoore wrote:If it was easier to remove slave collars, every spy/surfacer in Andunor would just collar themselves and enjoy complete freedom before leaving Andunor and taking the collar off as soon as they leave.

I dunno, the slave collar doesn't stop PVP-happy yahoos from assuming a character is a spy and no-RP killing them on sight, rather than... you know, actually trying to RP with them and find out if they are a spy.

Let's not have this thread turn into complaints about stuff that should be reported. I think there's enough of those already!

As for my thoughts on the slavery system, there does need to be mechanical support, for the reasons Durvayas listed.

Durvayas wrote:-Nearly free(just 500gp) teleporting of slaves to any slave caller for ease of summoning for RP.
-IC records of who owns who, with your owner displayed via examine in your description.
-Use of the Andunor hub portal for slaves, free, no outcast status required.
-Use of the exclusive slave quarters in the slave pits area.
-A secret refuge specifically for slave characters, only accessible by them.
-The slave escape questline gives a nifty reward item.

None of these would be possible without mechanical acknowledgement of which characters are slaves.

You've suggested multiple times that the slavery system should just be abolished and it should all be done through RP or though a collar that can be removed at any time ala the prisoner collar. Which makes me ask: What's preventing you from doing that under the current system? Nothing says that you have to be mechanically enslaved to engage in slave RP. The option is simply there for those that want it. I think the underlying problem is that too many people jump into mechanically-enforced slavery without considering purely RPed or prisoner collar slavery.

Not intending to turn the thread into anything, just informing him his point's kind of moot.

Baron Saturday wrote:I think the underlying problem is that too many people jump into mechanically-enforced slavery without considering purely RPed or prisoner collar slavery.

I think it's because purely RPed slavery will get ignored due to "well, there's no mechanical collar there, so you're not a slave because mechanics says so."

There's also the thing where players get OOCly coerced, tricked, or strongarmed into taking mechanically-enforced slavery. Some of the new/new-ish players I've spoken to aren't even aware that you have a choice not to be enslaved.

Mechanical slavery is designed for people who plan to be slaves for the long haul. Wearing that collar broadcasts a commitment: "I am playing a real slave".

Everyone knows the prisoner collar is temporary. Wearing that collar broadcasts a lack of commitment: "I'm only planning on being a slave for a short time".

I've seen indentured servants that are effectively slaves use the prisoner collar in conjunction with a note in their description to indicate such. This is a good use of it.

A greater issue, I should think, is the persistant issue of slaves not behaving as such. For every well RPed slave, there is a slave that acts as though it has no collar. I feel stronger reinforcement of RP standards for slaves per Rule #1 should be enacted by DMs and a harder line taken in that regard.

I believe the perceived problem is not the commitment, but how god awful it can be for committing to it, entirely for OOC/mechanic reasons.

Lorkas wrote:Being a mechanical slave grants -un if I'm not mistaken, as well as suppressing the drow raider random spawns and allowing use of the hub portal... not to mention granting the (slave) tag that sends an automatic signal to people about how to interact with your character. It's maybe not much RPwise, but there are mechanical effects.

Bit late on the thread, but slaves don't get undercommon, and they still get attacked by drow raids.

Honestly, that's the only part I'd change about them, because playing a low INT slave is miserable, and soloing in the low-activity hours is miserable. Maybe add a way for non melee characters to finish the slaves guild quest-line too.

Presently, being a slave is like having all the worst parts of being an outcast on the surface, together with the worst parts of being a surfacer in the underdark with none of the benefits (asides from hub portal access).

I don't like or trust slavery. I won't do slavery because I don't trust most of the people who seek to enslave other players because they're aware of the system, and many subvert the rules based on the ignorance of other players.