Arelith

So I made a spellsword yesterday, and I figured I'd make a feedback page about my experiences and impressions, seeing as this is still labeled as experimental.

First impression:
I can't even begin to express how much I love the path from a concept angle. It makes a type of character I've always dreamed of having possible, opens up a large number of previously poor class combinations and holds a lot of versatility. I really hope this remains in the game.

That said, I have see a few issues with it so far as well.

1) Negative energy could use nerfing. The healing effect is strong enough to withstand moderate to even high damage, as long as that damage comes gradually rather than through large crits.

2) Electric doesn't seem to trigger properly all the time. Many times I'll attack and never see a saving throw roll at all, even if other enemies are next to both myself and my target
I've made a separate bug report thread for all Imbue Weapon related bugs.

3) Casting GMW onto an imbued weapon rather than selecting the character seems to remove the imbue property

4) Flame Weapon and Imbue can be used at the same time(Flameweapon does still prevents GMW), but the fire effect never activates even although the On Hit property for it is on the weapon.

5) Sometimes, casting Cat's Grace on myself after Mage Armor, removes Mage Armor entirely

Twily wrote:1) I think the damage of Imbue Weapon properties is too high, at least for some elements with beneficial properties such as Healing of Chaining. The wiki says the formula is (X= WizardLevel/5+1*ImbueLevel)

If this is true, a level 25 spellsword gets 6*3 for a third tier imbue, meaning 18d4 damage.

Order of operations. 25 / 5 + 3 is 8, not 18.

A level 25 Spellsword using a third tier imbue would get 8d4 imbue damage, not 18d4 imbue damage.

pemdas, the great equaliser

.. Derp

Twily wrote:Except that it multiplies by imbue tier, *1 for 0-3 spells, *2 for 4-6 spells, *3 for 7-9

I can confirm this is the case, as when my level 3 used a finger of death scroll on their blade, I was getting 3d4 negative

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations


3rd level / 5 = 0 because of integers in code. Add 1 * 3. You get 3d4.

Please excuse my dear Aunt Sally.

Okay... I'll admit I got the order of operations backwards. (I'm only human. Heh)

Although I am pretty sure I'm getting 4d4 with enervation at L5, My average heal so far has definitely been above 6, and I hit 10~ish Negative quite often

According to the proper order of operations 1+1*2 would get me 3d4, not 4d4

Twily means on the double imbue.

8d4x2 (double save per hit, as well)

I don't think I mentioned the numbers on my own post, but you can chew through most things with the imbues.
Against players this is less useful due to higher save, but against most mobs, this means that your standard spellsword can a sp0000ky amount of damage.
In a single attack (assuming something like a 25/ fighter 5 build)
1d6+6+4+6+2+12+2d12 (+8d4 +8d4)
So basically, 33 to 60 (+16 to 64)
If you are dual wielding, and have 7 attacks, in a single flurry you can score from basically 120 to 350 of damage.

This may seem like a little too much, and it is, but most of this damage is locked behind a save, and it's elemental in nature, which makes it vastly less reliable in PvP.

You can easily confirm that by checking your minimum and max damage, if you get 3 damage, it's 3d4, if you get 13 or more, it's 4d4.

Cortex wrote:You can easily confirm that by checking your minimum and max damage, if you get 3 damage, it's 3d4, if you get 13 or more, it's 4d4.

Mhm- I plan to keep an eye out for this, Thus far I haven't hit a 3 a single time. It could just be strange luck, though.

Twily wrote:
3) Casting GMW onto an imbued weapon rather than selecting the character seems removes the imbue property

Unfortunately, somethings can't be worked around without additional NWNX toys- there's no way to tell the difference between an imbued property and an essence in this case. (and I'm surprised that the imbued properties stick around if GMW is cast on self rather than weapon... suggests that there is potentially a different bug :S )

And double imbue of the same type was never intended!

I'm glad to hear double imbue of the same time was never intended- That definitely appears like it could get silly, even if I do end up doing my math correctly. (facepalm. I'm not going to forget that one)

As for whether it's 3d4 or 4d4, I just hit some inanimate objects to check and it is 3d4, I've just been insanely lucky
5, 12, 8, 10, 6, 8, 12, 7, 7, 7, 6, 11, 8, 4, 8, 11, and then finally a 3.
Until the 3, that averaged 8.125, which definitely looks like a 4d4. Ahh well, I'll enjoy it while it lasts.

Note to self, don't do math late at night or first thing in the morning...

Twily wrote:
Note to self, don't do math late at night or first thing in the morning...

36 D4 negative imbue did sound quite fun though

I have noticed that with enervocation on a weapon at level 8 I only ever use healing kits when in boss fights or with unlucky rolls. Other then that enervocation imbue really keeps me full health and save. Was this actually the idea or might it be a tad overpower.

Ozzy.nl wrote:I have noticed that with enervocation on a weapon at level 8 I only ever use healing kits when in boss fights or with unlucky rolls. Other then that enervocation imbue really keeps me full health and save. Was this actually the idea or might it be a tad overpower.

A little yes, a little no, the damage/healing/saves is being watched closely.... as is things like using higher tier spells than you are actually able to (e.g. using a level 7-9 scroll).

Trying to get the balance right so that it's useful in PvP, but not overly strong in PvE is a very fine line too.

One more thing that seems broken is that some one can cast a mage armor on your spell sword and you drop from +8 AC to +4.

Happend to me last night when a sorcerer was trying to buff me. But this can apperntly be used as a tactic as well a save less debuff

Ozzy.nl wrote:I have noticed that with enervocation on a weapon at level 8 I only ever use healing kits when in boss fights or with unlucky rolls. Other then that enervocation imbue really keeps me full health and save. Was this actually the idea or might it be a tad overpower.

Feels strong early. Falls off a good sum around level 14.

As a spellsword level 27, I can say that with negative energy in the main hand, I don't have to use healing kits almost... well, never.

Iceborn wrote:As a spellsword level 27, I can say that with negative energy in the main hand, I don't have to use healing kits almost... well, never.

Is that using double negative?

Kirito wrote:

Iceborn wrote:As a spellsword level 27, I can say that with negative energy in the main hand, I don't have to use healing kits almost... well, never.

Is that using double negative?

It's not not using double negative.

I tend to go acid/negative (though I could go double negative for further hilarity), and fire/sonic in offhand.

If you use a weak weapon and do more negative energy damage than physical, could you use said weapon to heal an undead?

Durvayas wrote:If you use a weak weapon and do more negative energy damage than physical, could you use said weapon to heal an undead?

I don't believe so. Negative energy from weapon effects is applied differently AFAIK. I ran Cordor Crypts using negative energy and it certainly wasn't healing the undead there.

Wytchee wrote:

Durvayas wrote:If you use a weak weapon and do more negative energy damage than physical, could you use said weapon to heal an undead?

I don't believe so. Negative energy from weapon effects is applied differently AFAIK. I ran Cordor Crypts using negative energy and it certainly wasn't healing the undead there.

This

I am now convinced Negative Energy is overpowered and could seriously use some tweaking. I grabbed screenshots of the event that convinced me of this, because I feel they speak louder than words.


My character is L15 in these images, she has 41 AC without Haste, 45 AC with haste.(these aren't that crazy, and are pretty standard for tanky dex based characters by this level range if they have good gear).

That said, I believe a fight like this should have been difficult(it was effortless) for a character of my level given the difficulty of the battlefields.
I toke a lot of hits throughout the fight, but thanks to the negative imbue, I was able to keep my health bar more or less maxed for the entire fight, and didn't need to use a single bandage or potion.

The first screenshot I was able to consistently stay in until my haste ran out, after it ran out I moved to the position seen in the second screenshot, where I was easily able to fight them all.




And just in case anyone thinks I didn't live: