Arelith

As we still can't make suggestions I thought I would ask about the pirate system. The problem is at the moment there are people getting the pirate mark simply so they can identify other pirates. So is there any suggestions/ideas to make it so there is a better way for pirates to not be outed so easily?

Report those people. I'm certain that one NPC will visit them at night with a pillow.

Yeah, that behavior is incredibly inappropriate. It's literally a destructive mindset towards the roleplay setting of the pirates.

Is the "pirate tattoos" text in a character's examine box not meant to show up for everyone?

cptcuddlepants wrote: Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:43 pm Is the "pirate tattoos" text in a character's examine box not meant to show up for everyone?

Takes a pirate, or 20 lore to identify the mark.

cptcuddlepants wrote: Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:43 pm Is the "pirate tattoos" text in a character's examine box not meant to show up for everyone?

I second this question.
I've always been able to see the pirate tattoo thing in people's examine windows, but my character has definitely never started any sort of piracy quest of any sort.

Edit: Ninja reply, Thanks Cortex, that explains it!

Okay, that explains it, thanks!

Well, sounds like these people need to be ostracized for being pirates, they have the tattoos after all. What's to say they're not just triple agents only claiming to sell out their brethren pirates for an easy in with the good guys?

Cortex wrote: Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:53 pm

cptcuddlepants wrote: Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:43 pm Is the "pirate tattoos" text in a character's examine box not meant to show up for everyone?

Takes a pirate, or 20 lore to identify the mark.

might want to check it as I saw one in my examine box and my toon has a 10 lore and isnt a pirate

Myaybe up the lore a little. I mean 2 rings and you're already at 10 lore. I knew there were other ways but didn't know it was so low. Is there a way to make someone lose the tattoo if they don't do pirate stuff so often, or maybe need to do a few writs before you can earn the tattoo? Sort of a prove your dedication type thing.

But it took about 30 minutes after getting the tattoo till I was outed and reported as a pirate to cordor authorities. I hadn't even done any writ or anything yet.

I also saw them on a character with no lore, but spot, search, and your general rogue skills.

10 Lore seems awfully low to be able to identify such a thing.

Just make the 20 lore requirement not take into account any bonuses beyond feats.

What I find ironic is that the pirate tattoo actually makes being a pirate worse. Before, the only way people would know you were a pirate was to catch you in the act, now you get marked by anyone with a high enough skill rank. It doesn't matter if you're a Greenhorn (Not Landlubber? C'mon now) or a Dread Pirate, once you're outed that's it. You'll soon find your name on every settlement board across Arelith.
Don't get me wrong, having access to all that Sencliff offers is pretty good (the two rentable boats, the pirate writs, quarter and shop ownership) but compared to potentially losing access to all the surface settlements, it doesn't stack up. Especially when you consider that simply owning or renting a boat allows you to pirate just fine without the bullseye painted on you and to add insult to injury, the pirate ranks are utterly meaningless. Though granted the ranks are gained by completing writs, even simple things like landing on an islet, not what a pirate should gain infamy for really.

That is why I'd suggest changing the pirate system:

• 1. Pirate ranks are only gained via actual piracy - That is attacking merchant, Amn, Cordor and other pirate ships limited by writ.
• 2. Taking the tattoo would only grant access to the rentable ships. To gain quarters, shops or knowledge of other pirates you'd need to gain a rank by commiting an act of piracy.
• 3. Pirate ranks above the first would grant the ability to mask the tattoo, much the same way as disguising attributes works. The skill check would also include ranks in Intimidate.
• 4. Have the various trade ships be assigned destinations (e.g. Merchant Ship, Bound for X) that when successfully boarded and it's crew killed the settlement gets informed and tallied on a board. Underdark piracy would also be tallied (Survivors reported a mist of darkness/pirate colours.)
• 5. Each trade ship hit would grant resources to a Sencliff stockpile, excess could be sold off to settlements.
• 6. Make Sencliff a settlement with leadership elections requiring rank of Dread Pirate to stand. This would allow pirates to have at least some control over traitors and mutineers.

Baseili wrote: Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:38 pm What I find ironic is that the pirate tattoo actually makes being a pirate worse. Before, the only way people would know you were a pirate was to catch you in the act, now you get marked by anyone with a high enough skill rank. It doesn't matter if you're a Greenhorn (Not Landlubber? C'mon now) or a Dread Pirate, once you're outed that's it. You'll soon find your name on every settlement board across Arelith.
Don't get me wrong, having access to all that Sencliff offers is pretty good (the two rentable boats, the pirate writs, quarter and shop ownership) but compared to potentially losing access to all the surface settlements, it doesn't stack up. Especially when you consider that simply owning or renting a boat allows you to pirate just fine without the bullseye painted on you and to add insult to injury, the pirate ranks are utterly meaningless. Though granted the ranks are gained by completing writs, even simple things like landing on an islet, not what a pirate should gain infamy for really.

That is why I'd suggest changing the pirate system:

• 1. Pirate ranks are only gained via actual piracy - That is attacking merchant, Amn, Cordor and other pirate ships limited by writ.
• 2. Taking the tattoo would only grant access to the rentable ships. To gain quarters, shops or knowledge of other pirates you'd need to gain a rank by commiting an act of piracy.
• 3. Pirate ranks above the first would grant the ability to mask the tattoo, much the same way as disguising attributes works. The skill check would also include ranks in Intimidate.
• 4. Have the various trade ships be assigned destinations (e.g. Merchant Ship, Bound for X) that when successfully boarded and it's crew killed the settlement gets informed and tallied on a board. Underdark piracy would also be tallied (Survivors reported a mist of darkness/pirate colours.)
• 5. Each trade ship hit would grant resources to a Sencliff stockpile, excess could be sold off to settlements.
• 6. Make Sencliff a settlement with leadership elections requiring rank of Dread Pirate to stand. This would allow pirates to have at least some control over traitors and mutineers.

6: I don't see 6 happening. I know more expansion is still yet coming for the ship system and piracy in general, but very unlikely this would ever go the way of other settlements.

That said, the erroneous statement I'm finding is: "You'll soon find your name on every settlement board across Arelith.".

I've seen zero evidence of this, and I always caution against the assumption that one will be ousted right away and barred from everywhere without having actually done anything nefarious first.

3 also is problematic, I do not think intimidate should play a role in disguise at all. It doesn't make sense.

I will say after my becoming a pirate and returning to cordor to find out in 30 minutes it was already known I was a pirate. I didn't get ambushed by guards or banned from the city. I only found out because I walked around a corner and found the guy ratting me out. When asked how he knew he admitted he had the mark to spy so could identify others. The guards never sought me out, I have never seen my name posted anywhere, or been hassled. My guess it's one of those we will keep our eye on this guy type of thing or if I ever do get in trouble in cordor it's something they will bring up.

Let me know if this is too far off topic but, How fun is it overall being a pirate? How much of the game feels different? I have some friends who are considering joining and wanted to know about being one. I didnt know enough to really tell them anything. Are the writs fun? Is there anything cool from being a higher rank etc?

I am of the opinion that name changes may be needed.

Consider all the following:

- Privateer (Someone who sails under a Letter of Marque) -- a legitimized pirate.
- Corsair (A raider / a plundererer) -- to me this has a more neutral intonation.
- Swashbuckler (An adventurer-sailor) -- an honorable sailor -- a good intonation.
- Pirate (a robber of the seas, a cut-throat) -- a known criminal.

To me the default title should be something with a neutral intonation.

Pirate, in my opinion, should not be the default terminology. A pirate is someone who clearly flies under a black flag or refuses to show their flag of port. A pirate is someone who has actually boarded and looted another ship which is flying a maritime flag of its nation.

Sailors get tattoos all the time being a superstitious lot. Having a Pirate tattoo should be obfuscated behind the cover of maritime tattoos of all kinds thus allowing them to operate (carefully) to shore. Thus, allowing interaction. Thus, allowing roleplay under the 'be nice' rule.

The intended flavor of the system is for it to /be/ a pirate, not some looser term. Pirates are just those who engage in piracy. While in some places it may be as of one behavior set, another may have a different pirate culture. This part: " A pirate is someone who clearly flies under a black flag or refuses to show their flag of port" is not a sum of all pirate behaviors, this is more how the Golden Age of Piracy operated, and even then, not all flags were even black, and sometimes the flag raised was false rather than a color or none at all.

Nothing stops a pirate from operating around shore. At most, people are suspicious. If the current system is being used poorly, it will be changed. But I've not seen "Be Nice" not being followed in regards to pirates.

DM Titania wrote: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:28 pm The intended flavor of the system is for it to /be/ a pirate, not some looser term. Pirates are just those who engage in piracy. While in some places it may be as of one behavior set, another may have a different pirate culture. This part: " A pirate is someone who clearly flies under a black flag or refuses to show their flag of port" is not a sum of all pirate behaviors, this is more how the Golden Age of Piracy operated, and even then, not all flags were even black.

Nothing stops a pirate from operating around shore. At most, people are suspicious. If the current system is being used poorly, it will be changed. But I've not seen "Be Nice" not being followed in regards to pirates.

I see your point.

However - the reasons why a sailor might turn to piracy - and what they might seek to achieve - the player/character role - surely that is best painted with a broad stroke, rather than painted with perfect definition?

By way of example.

There are NPC's on Sencliff - who SAY - they are there through circumstance (a mother and son). Their circumstances are not binary - so why would you limit the player choices to be binary?

If the design sets player choices to black / grey / white, then interactions can be more interestingly black / grey / white.

I think the intent is that by working in Sencliffe, you are joining the pirates there, rather than just being a regular sailor that you might if you sign on with a settlement with a ship and dock. That's the flavor of the place, and thus why you don't see the other hues as much.

Jeloran wrote: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:19 pm Let me know if this is too far off topic but, How fun is it overall being a pirate? How much of the game feels different? I have some friends who are considering joining and wanted to know about being one. I didnt know enough to really tell them anything. Are the writs fun? Is there anything cool from being a higher rank etc?

I have enjoyed it, for me its nice to be involved in questionable things that don't necessarily involve pvp/slavery or having to go chill in the UD. I think there needs be a way to out pirates just that the current system makes it way too easy for someone to get the mark without any intention of ever being a pirate.

DM Titania wrote: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:08 pm 6: I don't see 6 happening. I know more expansion is still yet coming for the ship system and piracy in general, but very unlikely this would ever go the way of other settlements.

That said, the erroneous statement I'm finding is: "You'll soon find your name on every settlement board across Arelith.".

I've seen zero evidence of this, and I always caution against the assumption that one will be ousted right away and barred from everywhere without having actually done anything nefarious first.

3 also is problematic, I do not think intimidate should play a role in disguise at all. It doesn't make sense.

Getting Sencliff to be a settlement was a longshot and more for self-regulation than anything as its somewhat odd for an isle that has the bodies of muntineers and traitors on display yet cannot stop any known traitors from visiting.

In regards to word spreading of being a pirate it has already happened with a character called Vicho and the reason I added it to my suggestion.
He was outed at Cordor after turning into a werewolf and so far his name has been on both Cordor's and Bendir's board listing him as both. I've not checked Brog's or Guldorand's boards yet but with the amount of people moving through Cordor and Bendir I'd wager a good portion of the population know now. Though to split hairs I mentioned the potential to be banned from the settlements, which is a possibility, not that pirates would be cast out the instant they are known.

As for 3. I imagine being intimidating would prevent a lot of people from taking a good look at you, more prevention than outright covering like bluff/perform. In that same vein, having your tattoos seen through clothing doesn't make sense but its a fact we must work around and presently have no defense against.

Jeloran wrote: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:19 pm Let me know if this is too far off topic but, How fun is it overall being a pirate? How much of the game feels different? I have some friends who are considering joining and wanted to know about being one. I didnt know enough to really tell them anything. Are the writs fun? Is there anything cool from being a higher rank etc?

It's pretty fun with others, especially if you join or make your own crew. I can't say the game changes all that much, having the tattoo does tend to draw looks from people and can get you into trouble depending on who sees it. The writs are just like the others just sea based, though getting where you want to go is a dice roll when you're sailing. Sadly no, the ranks don't mean much at the moment.

That reminds me, one last suggestion: Being able to see your own pirate rank.

As long as wizards get huge number of sklil points because of high int, that long will not matter how high the lore requirments is.

It would just put anyone else, especially meleers, who gain like 2+ INt mod per lvl on disadvantage with wizard class in possible detection.

Baseili wrote: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:11 pm

DM Titania wrote: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:08 pm 6: I don't see 6 happening. I know more expansion is still yet coming for the ship system and piracy in general, but very unlikely this would ever go the way of other settlements.

That said, the erroneous statement I'm finding is: "You'll soon find your name on every settlement board across Arelith.".

I've seen zero evidence of this, and I always caution against the assumption that one will be ousted right away and barred from everywhere without having actually done anything nefarious first.

3 also is problematic, I do not think intimidate should play a role in disguise at all. It doesn't make sense.

Getting Sencliff to be a settlement was a longshot and more for self-regulation than anything as its somewhat odd for an isle that has the bodies of muntineers and traitors on display yet cannot stop any known traitors from visiting.

In regards to word spreading of being a pirate it has already happened with a character called Vicho and the reason I added it to my suggestion.
He was outed at Cordor after turning into a werewolf and so far his name has been on both Cordor's and Bendir's board listing him as both. I've not checked Brog's or Guldorand's boards yet but with the amount of people moving through Cordor and Bendir I'd wager a good portion of the population know now. Though to split hairs I mentioned the potential to be banned from the settlements, which is a possibility, not that pirates would be cast out the instant they are known.

As for 3. I imagine being intimidating would prevent a lot of people from taking a good look at you, more prevention than outright covering like bluff/perform. In that same vein, having your tattoos seen through clothing doesn't make sense but its a fact we must work around and presently have no defense against.

"He was outed at Cordor after turning into a werewolf "

This is what I will emphasize.

He becomes an issue /after/ doing something bad. I.E., before, he may be regarded carefully, but now that he is a problem, (Became a werewolf), he is even more talked about. This didn't happen just because.

Also being on a public board is really not a counter. The guy doesn't have to use his real name everywhere, can disguise, etc.

This isn't immediate ousting, this is doing something to get in trouble and have your actions spread. There are many, many counter actions available to keep your identity safe.

Even when it is compromised, there are plenty of things to do (From not caring to stayling low) to weather the storm.

I disagree with the intimidating aspect still, because intimidating does not always mean looking away in fear, but sometimes being extremely watchful in fear. It should keep to the bluff/perform flavor at most. There's no reason to throw another stat to the contribution list.