Arelith

Before I get shot in the head and buried somewhere dark, take a time to put that gun away and consider, for a moment, the current situation of "rune components and other various rarities" hunting, usually, it's a group of two, three persons, perhaps more , perhaps less at times heading to various dungeons with hope of a big chest with something shiny and valuable inside.
From relatively doable to very difficult, it is both an investment in time and effort to reach the fabled chest with the so desired loots, BUT !
Upon arrival you don't find the chest at all, it's gone, and with it any hopes and dreams to make that trip worthwhile, such has been at least, for me, a daily disappointment as of now, just because a few forget that in their desire to acquire something, they end up canceling any chance for others after them to do so.

What I first wish to ask is if that is how things are supposed to be in Arelith, as a persistent world, if it's the creators vision that within that setting, the "well it sucks to be you" and for such chests to be bashable, and completely unusable for the longest of time, is normal and desired?

And second, what would the community's Feedback to the current situation, and what is their thoughts about such a change, would you be in favor for an unbashable rune components/rarities chest? one that would require a minimum of knowledge in picklocking and trap disabling (which isn't all that difficult to get anyways) to open? or would you strongly disapprove of such a change?

I personally think that while the spawn-rates should probably remain the same, the chance of such items spawning should not be straight up denied by destroying the containers that allow such items to spawn in the first place, thus giving a chance to anyone that visits the dungeons to earn something out of it, rather than cheer disappointment.

Very much wish chests were unbashable. At the very least the final ones in said dungeon.

I think gating high end gear behind a single skill is questionable. I would prefer for other ways players might be able to gain runes, equipment, treasure. I believe that these items should spawn regardless of a thief being in the party, and augment rogues in a different way to facilitate their participation in a party.

I thought chests respawned on a timer these days? Is that not the case?

Normal ones, yes, I think so. Used to be 'artefact' ones? No. 98% sure those do not respawn till a reset.

I'd be down for one of two things.

First, chests are simply unbashable and if you don't bring a rogue/lockpicker to somewhere that /should/ realistically have good secure chests then that's just poor planning on your part. Let rogues do their job!!

Second, i'd also be down for chests being bashable (all of them respawning after some time though even the rune ones) but bashing it has a chance, maybe 50/50, of destroying each item within the chest. That way you still have a chance of getting the loot if you didn't bring a rogue, but bringing a rogue is the safer path to take.

Why not add extra unbashable chests to certain dungeons with very high DC? So if you bring a dedicated rogue or something, you have double the chance.

Orian_666 wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:41 pm I'd be down for one of two things.

First, chests are simply unbashable and if you don't bring a rogue/lockpicker to somewhere that /should/ realistically have good secure chests then that's just poor planning on your part. Let rogues do their job!!

Second, i'd also be down for chests being bashable (all of them respawning after some time though even the rune ones) but bashing it has a chance, maybe 50/50, of destroying each item within the chest. That way you still have a chance of getting the loot if you didn't bring a rogue, but bringing a rogue is the safer path to take.

I love the second option here, namely the respawning. It can be done it just needs a bit of a coding tweak.

Orian_666 wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:41 pm I'd be down for one of two things.

First, chests are simply unbashable and if you don't bring a rogue/lockpicker to somewhere that /should/ realistically have good secure chests then that's just poor planning on your part. Let rogues do their job!!

Second, i'd also be down for chests being bashable (all of them respawning after some time though even the rune ones) but bashing it has a chance, maybe 50/50, of destroying each item within the chest. That way you still have a chance of getting the loot if you didn't bring a rogue, but bringing a rogue is the safer path to take.

The second option is great on paper, but you have to remember two things:
1. Rogues are weak as a class, so people don't play them.
2. Regardless of how many, availability of rogues will always also be a huge issue; some dungeons will become near pointless to run.

The second option exists on PoTM, and it honestly is so terrible that ninjalooting and OOC cliques is encouraged.

I don't think the demand for rogues will go up, but suddenly a lot more people will be buying 'Knock' scrolls and wands.

ArcanaFTW wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:01 am I don't think the demand for rogues will go up, but suddenly a lot more people will be buying 'Knock' scrolls and wands.

You can set them to not be able to be unlocked by those.

The issue is as often the infinite traps. It is very annoying to slog your way through a dungeon (especially the first time you've been there) only to find that you can't get the loot because some infinite trap blocks it, and to rub it in you get a nice supply of Zinc instead.

One can't always bring a rogue on every adventure, unless you're playing the rogue, or happen to know the right people.

Why not make the chests unbashable, and then give them the same dialogue as quarter doors? You try to open it and you can pick it or force the lock, forcing the lock has a chance to destroy things inside.

Rogues just got a LOVELY boost!!

I really like the dialogue of being able to try to force the lock open, with a chance of destroying the items besides gold that were inside, this goes along with the traditional DnD idea better then making them unbashable and people being punished for not being able to open locks or not dragging along a locksmith. I cringe when I have to bash a chest to get what may he inside, but i am even more so bothered when I go through a dungeon only to find a room or chest that is inaccessible because I am the wrong class or build.

I don't want to rely on a rogue being present. I already have very little/no incentive to go on adventures without one (that I can trust not to ninjaloot) because everything is either locked (more easily overcome) or has an infini-traps (nothing you can do about it) on it. I'd like it if we removed all the infini-traps from the game. And I was under the impression that a long time ago that was something that was being done, but I guess I was wrong?

Versatile wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:36 pm Normal ones, yes, I think so. Used to be 'artefact' ones? No. 98% sure those do not respawn till a reset.

These ones need to be made unbashable. They do not respawn. They also still drop the mats inside if they get bashed. So there is incentive to break them, get the loot, and make it so no one else can get things to 'use against you'.

Making them respawn is much more fun than making them only rogue/pixie familiar accessible.

Eters wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:09 pm From relatively doable to very difficult, it is both an investment in time and effort to reach the fabled chest with the so desired loots, BUT !

I don't care about chests, most of the time. Majority of my "income" for all characters always came from enemy drops. Number of chests on arelith is quite low, so I'm quite certain I wouldn't be getting the old "steal every trap, pick every box for fun" thrill here if I rolled a rogue.

The situation you describe will simply result in people cross-class investing in open lock skill and open lock gear or taking a rogue level dip.

HOnestly, I"m not seeing the point.

I played on a server which had this for couple of select chests, and it did not result in people bringing in more rogues. They either used knock spell or items, but the problem with rogues is that you first need to find a rogue player available. If you haven't got one, it won't magically appear out of thin air and offer their services while you're dealing with taht "mysteriously unrbeakable magic locked box" conundrum of yours. It also begs the question, why my character can't simply steal the whole chest and bring it to the town to get it open.

The mechanics would feel quite OOC to me, to be honest. If I could steal the whole chest it would be quite fun, but if it is not a possibility, I'm not seeing much of the point.

Man people really hate rogues. I suspect it's mostly the level 25+ people who solo all their content that are complaining that some of the content in the game requires them to actually play with someone else or "share".

Also do people not use knock?

Phoxly wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:48 pm Man people really hate rogues. I suspect it's mostly the level 25+ people who solo all their content that are complaining that some of the content in the game requires them to actually play with someone else or "share".

Also do people not use knock?

I (almost) never go adventuring alone and I hate mechanics that require one specific class to progress in a dungeon. Just means that there's one dungeon less available to my party if we don't have that class online right now, and in the case of locked doors/chests, I don't think I've ever found an actual rogue to help out with those, but wizards with pixies and cross-classers who grabbed open lock with some gear they slap on whenever they find a difficult lock.

I have yet to come across a dungeon that was completely impossible to complete without a rogue. Now to get the loot at the end? Yeah you probably need a rogue to get rid of that nasty trap, and knock or a pixie to get rid of the lock... but almost all the locked doors in dungeons are shortcuts or other non-essential doors to actually getting to the end to beat the boss.

Phoxly wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:45 pm I have yet to come across a dungeon that was completely impossible to complete without a rogue. Now to get the loot at the end? Yeah you probably need a rogue to get rid of that nasty trap, and knock or a pixie to get rid of the lock... but almost all the locked doors in dungeons are shortcuts or other non-essential doors to actually getting to the end to beat the boss.

The guldorand crypts come to mind for dungeons you can't complete without a rogue. Bendir Orcs, too.

Ork wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:08 pm I think gating high end gear behind a single skill is questionable. I would prefer for other ways players might be able to gain runes, equipment, treasure. I believe that these items should spawn regardless of a thief being in the party, and augment rogues in a different way to facilitate their participation in a party.

With current DCs on chest traps and locks, a character with 14 int and 13 dex, can get a set of gear made (like... everything), with dex/int/disable trap/open lock... Then the skill investment to crack into end-game "artifact" chests is a grand total of... 1 point in disable trap and 2 in open lock.

You can even reach the DC to REMOVE the trap like this, so you don't even need a rogue dip.

Aodh Lazuli wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:46 pm

Ork wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:08 pm I think gating high end gear behind a single skill is questionable. I would prefer for other ways players might be able to gain runes, equipment, treasure. I believe that these items should spawn regardless of a thief being in the party, and augment rogues in a different way to facilitate their participation in a party.

With current DCs on chest traps and locks, a character with 14 int and 13 dex, can get a set of gear made (like... everything), with dex/int/disable trap/open lock... Then the skill investment to crack into end-game "artifact" chests is a grand total of... 1 point in disable trap and 2 in open lock.

You can even reach the DC to REMOVE the trap like this, so you don't even need a rogue dip.

Or the player could get gear with actually useful set of enchantments, and skip that one pointless chest at the end.

If the idea was to enforce specific type of enchantment mechanically, this is approach never works and is best abandoned.

Rogues, unfortunately, are quite uncommon. I think I met a single digit number of rogues (that travelled in my party) on the sever.

Skipping artefact chests is not an option, it's the entire point.