Arelith

Piety for some gods seems extremely difficult compare to others...surely this wasn't intended to be such a massive gap.

Hearth and Home
Healing - This is an extremely difficult way to get piety for any other class than perhaps a cleric.. and even a cleric wouldn't gain much from this compared to magic or war. Requires healing spells or potions.

Knowledge and Invention
Crafting - You plain don't craft enough for this to be a source of piety. Requires materials and crafting skills.

Trickery and Deceit
Disguise - Unless you plan on being disguised all the time this one also gives very little. Even if you did it still would be quite poor piety gain. Very difficult for anyone without bluff or perform.


Now compare those with

Magic
Casting spells - Provided you can cast spells this should be a good source.

War
Killing things - This is by far the best and generates loads. Works for every class.

Piety has gotten much easier to manage now that all deities have two aspects. I don't disagree that it's tough to gain piety through H&H or T&D, but K&I gets substantially easier as you level and have more crafting options/access to resources, and Nature, Magic and War are downright easy. As long as you're not following a deity whose aspects are H&H/T&D, you shouldn't be having that hard of a time keeping piety up.

It also depends on your class. Hearth and Home is relatively easy to use when you're able to cast healing spells, especially if you just chug potions. Knowledge and Invention is great for people that are crafting a lot, which some people actually do.

Hearth and Home and Magic will be about as difficult to get piety from depending on class, it is just much more common for Magic to be used by mages and H&H is often used by non mages. If you're not a wizard/sorc/cleric/druid then Magic will be quite hard to get piety from since I don't think it includes wands/potions. That said, Magic should not include healing spells to not just make it all around better.

War - this one is actually hard to use unless you're good at killing things. A Healer cleric, wizard, rogue, etc will all struggle to land the final blow on foes, making others much more useful.

Trickery and Deceit is rather poor, but with deities having two domains you can use the other domain to keep your piety up and use the god save for bluff rolls which is quite useful. Also surprisingly you can get a lot of piety walking around with a high bluff in a city with NPCs. But the point is to help with trickery and deceit, if you're not using them then you're not going to get peity.

Nature is a bit strong, but relies on you being able to find plants that haven't been picked by another, meaning a group of druids/rangers actually weaken their piety gaining abilities.

Trouble is you pick a deity based on roleplay...at least i do. A lot of these are based around having certain abilities and skills...which you may not have access to.

Some people MAY craft alot...but i doubt that is anywhere near the level of piety war and magic get. Furthermore it costs resources and for the most part people don't craft too much for example - Forging..unless your in skyrim and making 400 iron daggers your piety isn't going to go up much.

So for example... defensive gods could grant piety for guarding someone. That should be fairly easy and fits the lore and perhaps a god like Sune could have a constant income based on charisma it would be slow but constant. It is difficult to think of anything that could be on par with straight up killing blows.

Prayer and gold sacrifice at altars to your deity also works to raise piety, if you're not able to raise it through the aspect-specific tasks.

There may well be further adjustments to aspects going on, but as there are 150-some deities and the aspect rework is, so far as I know, being done by one person... I wouldn't hold my breath.

150 deities doesn't seem an issue, there are 6 piety sources and a few just need a bit of tweaking, at least as a temporary solution.

Trickery in particular could also add piety every time you successfully pass someone stealthed, opened a lock or disabled a trap. I actually hate the disguise requirement since it encourages people to be in disguise when they otherwise wouldn't be just for the piety gain. It's also a bit ridiculous for clerics who may not have the skill points (or even the desire or need) to be expected to be in disguise, especially pre-epic level bard dump.

K&I is a little more difficult to think of but if nothing else the gain from crafting could be nudged upwards. You get 50 or 60 crafting points every two hours after all, there has to be some math where they can translate to an acceptable amount of piety.

Hearth and Home isn't really THAT bad. Buy as many cure light wounds potions as you can carry and chug them between fights. A minor nuisance but not that bad.

K&I is a little more difficult to think of but if nothing else the gain from crafting could be nudged upwards. You get 50 or 60 crafting points every two hours after all, there has to be some math where they can translate to an acceptable amount of piety.

Thing is this requires materials to do. Think about an early game character level 1-10. They can't craft loads of things they simply don't have the resources...heck anyone without a house will struggle with weight of many materials.

Hearth and Home isn't really THAT bad. Buy as many cure light wounds potions as you can carry and chug them between fights. A minor nuisance but not that bad.

I think that is bad, not only is it a flat money sink but its also poor RP wise to spam excessive amounts of potions.

Prayer at a shrine is the only thing lower levels can do for these far as i can tell. IF they can find a shrine to their god.

Crafting includes equipment repair and putting points into difficult long term items. Or helping others with theirs. It is not difficult to use all of your points.

If you think drinking multiple potions is bad RP, that is not an argument I am willing to engage in. Sorry. People use dozens of heal kits mid fight and do a lot of other things you have to do because it's a game and the mechanics only allow so much.

I wouldn't mind seeing H&H tweaked (maybe giving piety based on how much healing you actually do, so cure minor doesn't do as well as cure critical?) but I am saying it is not all that difficult to raise even with the potions you find fighting monsters.

Honestly, so war, every character i've had WAR domain based deity has always been 100% even the buffer/conjurer mage!.

Magic is pretty steady, but falls short of war, but a slow steady climb, beyond that the others "work" but usually the benefit is far less not getting anywhere near the numbers of piety flow in.


Crafting for instance you have 50 crafting points, i gain about 5 piety, spending them all on repairs.. while my warrior, never seems to get past 94% as each time he kills something it's 0.5% gain.

Sacrificing gold is... eh. not exactly a viable path early on when you can barely afford those healing kits to save your life.

as for trickery and deceit, it feels.. cheating using a currently broken system to gain piety, and strange that you're encouraged to walk about disguised at all times.. unless you follow the god of lies (cyric) so, my rogue has just given up maintaining his piety.. it's simply not viable with a crafting/trickery domain deity.

Most of the suggestions here have already been scripted but the updates were on hold while the EE migration was ongoing. I plan to pick it up again shortly.

Unfortunately, I cannot give a definite timeline as the work that needs to be done mostly revolves around finding a system that most feel comfortable with. It’s not just as simple as adding more sources.

On a personal level, I’ve been playing characters who will be affected by any of these changes (divine classes) to insure that I have first had knowledge of what effect the changes will have on those most impacted. There has been a fairly significant QoL change since the dual aspect even as much to say my H&H + K&I Paladin keeps up piety most of the time without issues (unless raise scroll or god saves get used).

At any rate, I apperate insight, ideas, or just random thoughts. Feel free to share here, PM, or on Discord.

Xerah wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:52 pm Most of the suggestions here have already been scripted but the updates were on hold while the EE migration was ongoing. I plan to pick it up again shortly.

Unfortunately, I cannot give a definite timeline as the work that needs to be done mostly revolves around finding a system that most feel comfortable with. It’s not just as simple as adding more sources.

On a personal level, I’ve been playing characters who will be affected by any of these changes (divine classes) to insure that I have first had knowledge of what effect the changes will have on those most impacted. There has been a fairly significant QoL change since the dual aspect even as much to say my H&H + K&I Paladin keeps up piety most of the time without issues (unless raise scroll or god saves get used).

At any rate, I apperate insight, ideas, or just random thoughts. Feel free to share here, PM, or on Discord.

I'll throw in my suggestions as a rogue's perspective on piety gain, as my rogue has never really dipped past negative piety, thou i do occasionally try to raise it through regular prayers.

Trickery/thievery alternative source of piety through pickpocketing, since you can PP both players and NPCS it does not force a specific targets, but generally disguise is situational, while rogues pickpocketing monsters in combat is somewhat regularly at least for me as a extra income, it also makes sense for some of the gods under this domain. Running around disguised not for a roleplay reason but for piety is not something i'd like to do.

it would be nice of the GOD SAVE for trickery was either broken disguise, or spotted PP attempt once per day.

K&I: Include craft trap as a source of piety, since you're technically crafting when doing so as well.

If you're actually taking out-there suggestions...

I'd like to see a divine class character's piety increase much quicker when in a party with other players of the same faith.

And too funny an idea not to suggest... How about a small piety boost whenever the cleric actually says their deity's name. With some reasonable safeguard against spamming abuse.

If I had a wishlist...

T&D
- Successful stealthing (this is probably too much)
- Opening locks
- Disarming (hostile) traps
- Setting traps

K&I
- Scribing scrolls
- Crafting wands
- Brewing potions
- Crafting traps
- Visiting new areas (tied into AXP gain system?)

H&H
- PDK Last Stand
- Lay on Hands
- Eating pie

Rebel4ever wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:02 am Trouble is you pick a deity based on roleplay...at least i do. A lot of these are based around having certain abilities and skills...which you may not have access to.

Not sure how that is a trouble, as someone else that picks a deity based on roleplay. You want to worship a deity that has a certain domain, you want the deity to support you in your endeavours (be it by god saves or prayers), do things for that deity that they like. If you choose to follow Chauntea and don't want anything to do with nature or life then she isn't going to help you out.

And by "Want" I mean what your character's skills are. If your character fails with plants and has no capability for healing then Chauntea has little reason to intervene on your behalf compared to someone that heals and nurtures life.

That said, I agree with Baron Saturday's wishlist! Adding some numbers though (and my own)

T&D
- Successful stealthing (0.1%)
- Casting invisibility/Darkness spells (0.5%)
- Opening locks (1%)
- Disarming (hostile) traps (1%)
- Setting traps (Actually would be against this as you could just pick up the trap and keep laying it for piety)
- Trap triggering on NPC (1%)
- Recovering (hostile) traps (2%)

K&I
- Scribing scrolls (.5%)
- Crafting wands (.5%)
- Brewing potions (1%)
- Crafting traps (1%)
- Visiting new areas (This fits under knowledge well, but I can't think of a useful number)
- Repairing gear/Spend crafting point in general (0.1% per point)

H&H
- PDK Last Stand (1% per person affected)
- Lay on Hands (5%)
- Eating pie (1%)
- Crafting food/drink (0.5%)
- Healing Kits (0.25%)
- Raising the dead (5%)

Nature
- Animal Empathy (0.5%)
- Crafting plants (2%)

Magic
- Should not work for healing spells

Rebel4ever wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:24 pm Piety for some gods seems extremely difficult compare to others...surely this wasn't intended to be such a massive gap.

Hearth and Home
Healing - This is an extremely difficult way to get piety for any other class than perhaps a cleric.. and even a cleric wouldn't gain much from this compared to magic or war. Requires healing spells or potions.

Knowledge and Invention
Crafting - You plain don't craft enough for this to be a source of piety. Requires materials and crafting skills.

Trickery and Deceit
Disguise - Unless you plan on being disguised all the time this one also gives very little. Even if you did it still would be quite poor piety gain. Very difficult for anyone without bluff or perform.


Now compare those with

Magic
Casting spells - Provided you can cast spells this should be a good source.

War
Killing things - This is by far the best and generates loads. Works for every class.

In my experience, Trickery and Deceit is easier to keep maxed than War. However, you DO need to be disguised all the time non-stop and you need to have very high skill.

In addition to that, it has that problem where "the deity suddenly decides to protect your privacy even though you didn't ask for it, at cost of 25 piety".

However, the fastest way of raising piety (aside from sacrifices) is still praying, or holding ceremonies. I haven't seen many ceremonies.

Not sure how that is a trouble, as someone else that picks a deity based on roleplay. You want to worship a deity that has a certain domain, you want the deity to support you in your endeavours (be it by god saves or prayers), do things for that deity that they like. If you choose to follow Chauntea and don't want anything to do with nature or life then she isn't going to help you out.

And by "Want" I mean what your character's skills are. If your character fails with plants and has no capability for healing then Chauntea has little reason to intervene on your behalf compared to someone that heals and nurtures life.

That was never the issue. The issue is lets say you play a Druid of Chauntea you run around doing everything you can for nature...and I choose Mielikki and don't give a damn. I will still be better in piety than you provided we are both leveling up and i am killing things simply because Mielikki has war.