Arelith

For the most part, the grenades add a lot of useful utility, or ability to harm things rogues otherwise were useless against, like undead or golems. (Though dragons and elementals are still rogue proof)

But, two of the grenades in particular are either not working as intended, or are simply not worth using.

Smoke Screen, and Mirror Dust.

Both suffer from the problem that they also effect the rogue who uses them, 100% of the time since it drops it at your feet (Why can't we throw these?)

Smoke screen gives a minor buff to hide and a negative to spot, but only lasts a few rounds. I can't think of any situation where i'd need +5 hide that only lasts 60 seconds.

Mirror dust is far worse, as it drops your AB by 5, and gives additional miss chance (Whats that mean?) It even hurts your allies, so I struggle to see a huge use for a grenade that reduces a rogues mediocre AB by 5.

Its also mentioned that anyone passing through the cloud will take the negatives, but the cloud only lasts 6 seconds.


Simply making a rogue immune to their own specialized grenades would fix the issue rightly, or if more counterplay was needed, allow the rogue to throw the grenade so it isnt a 100% chance of hitting you.

I'll bite.

Giftstoff wrote: Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:37 pm Both suffer from the problem that they also effect the rogue who uses them, 100% of the time since it drops it at your feet (Why can't we throw these?)

So the rogue is always affected.
So the rogue has to be close to an opponent to use them. (Extended: So a rogue can't immediately CS after chucking them provided someone isn't positioned poorly)

Giftstoff wrote: Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:37 pm Smoke screen gives a minor buff to hide and a negative to spot, but only lasts a few rounds. I can't think of any situation where i'd need +5 hide that only lasts 60 seconds.

You'd use them against any melee with detect, that you can't drop in a round. (Extended: where an LoS break is)

Giftstoff wrote: Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:37 pm Mirror dust is far worse, as it drops your AB by 5, and gives additional miss chance (Whats that mean?) It even hurts your allies, so I struggle to see a huge use for a grenade that reduces a rogues mediocre AB by 5.

It's free expertise & II.
Works well with parry mode.
Extra fantastic vs low ac characters.
Extra fantastic partied with casters.

Sockss wrote: Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:41 pm I'll bite.

I'm glad he asked. A lot of that is nothing I would have considered, it is not intuitive and since this is a such a rickety homemade game it's tough to know if some recent addition like the grenades is working properly if the results aren't what you expect.

How was the smoke screen effect? Did it create a large cloud? Asking about the aesthetics for something else.

Meh... it makes a sort of misty effect, very easy to see through and not particularly good for the dramatic 'SMOKEBOMB!!!' escape.

Uses the stonehold spell visual I believe .