Arelith

Cerk Evermoore wrote: Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:37 pm +1 poison dc per 2 blackguard levels

Brandon Steel wrote: Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:27 pm Wouldn’t mind paladins of different alignments, don’t see a reason to remove blackguard though. If anything I’d like to see blackguard get a revamp and get spells akin to Paladin, with an obvious focus on damage/negative energy instead of the set crap it has now.

Brandon Steel wrote: Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:27 pm Wouldn’t mind paladins of different alignments, don’t see a reason to remove blackguard though. If anything I’d like to see blackguard get a revamp and get spells akin to Paladin, with an obvious focus on damage/negative energy instead of the set crap it has now.

JubJub wrote: Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:02 pm If there are going to be neutral/evil paladins then there needs to be good warlocks and black guards. Also A BG is not an evil paladin so it doesn't need things that a paladin has. if anything I would of loved to see a paladin get a summon seems like something a god would allow their holy follower to do.

JubJub wrote: Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:25 pm if the server allows evil paladins or neutral then you could argue why can't I pact myself to a celestial to battle evil. After all a pact doesn't necessarily mean giving up your soul. Nowhere does it say you have to sell your soul to the pacted being. A abyssal pact could easily be cause chaos with this power at every chance you get, or fight infernal powers. Maybe I vow to feed every orphan I see.

Arelith shows Cot is he Champion of Torm can be roleplayed as a Divine Champion of any non-evil deity. A COT is pretty much a paladin. Where a BG is a evil fiend and doesn't have to be tied to a god or anything. So balance would mean a good BG where you are just a epic good person not tied to divine or gods.

Kuma wrote: Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:31 am

JubJub wrote: Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:25 pm if the server allows evil paladins or neutral then you could argue why can't I pact myself to a celestial to battle evil. After all a pact doesn't necessarily mean giving up your soul. Nowhere does it say you have to sell your soul to the pacted being. A abyssal pact could easily be cause chaos with this power at every chance you get, or fight infernal powers. Maybe I vow to feed every orphan I see.

Arelith shows Cot is he Champion of Torm can be roleplayed as a Divine Champion of any non-evil deity. A COT is pretty much a paladin. Where a BG is a evil fiend and doesn't have to be tied to a god or anything. So balance would mean a good BG where you are just a epic good person not tied to divine or gods.

celestials specifically don't take warlocks, they aren't here to win over mortal affairs with shiny trinkets, that's not what the moral high ground is - besides, an analogue to this already exists, it's called a good-aligned cleric. basically, you can't pact yourself to goodly beings to fight evil because they won't let you.

also "balance" doesn't mean precise mirroring of classes and opportunities thereof, this isn't WoW. and an epic good person not devoted to any particular deity is called an epic fighter/WM. they don't get super powers just for being "good". in that vein, blackguards don't get powers just for being "evil". they make bargains and pledge fealties to fell powers. goodly planar beings aren't there to make bargains with you, that defeats the purpose of being good. it's a higher outward moral purpose, rather than the self-interest that motivates people to evil (i'm simplifying here).

also, i'd like to see divine champion splayed out to all alignments, not just non-evil, when we get haks that can impliment a working version of smite infidel to replace smite evil.

But again nowhere does it say a BG has to make a bargain with a higher power. Paladins and COT are divine, so why not have a good BG who does good without caring about gods. All I am saying is if good classes are open to evil then you need to make the bad ones open to good. There are many ways a pact can be done, could be a simple agreement for their aid you will stop chaos when you have the chance etc.

Basementfellow wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:18 pm

But again nowhere does it say a BG has to make a bargain with a higher power. Paladins and COT are divine, so why not have a good BG who does good without caring about gods. All I am saying is if good classes are open to evil then you need to make the bad ones open to good. There are many ways a pact can be done, could be a simple agreement for their aid you will stop chaos when you have the chance etc.

Sounds like a Neutral character to me, rather than a Good one. Being a BG on Arelith, they'll still have been in league, to some extent, with a being of pure evil. Especially damning is their ability to conjure up fiends and undead.

The way I see it, Paladins and Divine Champions have no such specificity. Makes sense to open them up to all alignments. They're simply extremely dedicated to their deity's dogma, and are willing to fight for it. More militant Clerics, with less of a focus on preaching, more on practicing.

That said, I'd love to see Blackguards given a more distinct niche. I like their emphasis on summons, and think they'd do well as a sort of melee-based Warlock. Maybe their currently useless Smite could add Eldritch Blast damage to their next attack.

JubJub wrote: Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:50 pmBut again nowhere does it say a BG has to make a bargain with a higher power. Paladins and COT are divine, so why not have a good BG who does good without caring about gods. All I am saying is if good classes are open to evil then you need to make the bad ones open to good. There are many ways a pact can be done, could be a simple agreement for their aid you will stop chaos when you have the chance etc.

JubJub wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:00 am Also why can't a pact come from a god? So a good god could easily strike a deal with mortals to spread that gods agenda.