Arelith

Alright, so I'm aware this is quite a hot topic those times, but I really think we need to debate the slavery system to make it better.

From what I have seen those times, slavery cases in which PvP encounters on Surface leads to enslavement are starting to be quite frequent. I've heard of/saw five of those last week ICly.

I think there are two issues in slavery. The first one is that the current system have flows that makes it illogical RP-Wise. The only way to get off slavery without paying is to go throught the secret quest. Thus, the surfacers cannot do anything to help their friends. That makes very little sense to me.
I know that it is possible to get a DMed event to free a slave, but seeing the high numbers of cases this of obviously not an option.

The other issue is that beyond getting collared, there are no other option. Prisonner collar have no meaning since -yoink fix it. Besides, sometimes people are not glad with the slave RP or get issues, and there is no mechanical way to get out of that easely. Sometimes they do not really know how slave RP will be and they are disappointed.

I don't say that slave RP is bad at all. Obviously it can create really nice RP. But there's a need for an option to free slaves or to find a middle-ground between the two collars.

So far I can only think of making a quite hard group quest either on Surface or in the Underdark, so that freeing the slave is not too easy, but does not last for weeks and can be done. It'd create RP between the people doing the quest, and perhaps also getting to some actually cool PvP RP if the Underdarkers are trying to keep their slave ! It'd be a commitment to try to free a slave. Dilemnas or so on could be included in the quest, to make it funnier.

If you guys can throw on your ideas or views on that, I'd be glad to hear all of it ! I have yet to think of other solutions.
Just stay polite and nice, I don't want to raise an argument about Surfacers Vs Underdarkers.
Thanks.

Also, perhaps I should have thrown that in Build & Mechanics, I hesitated.

I have several gripes with the slavery system, the main one being that it isn't fun on an OOC level to be a slave due to all the little annoyances that pile up.

If you're a UD slave, you'll be stuck staring at a wall of Undercommon you can't understand unless you're a class with high enough INT to learn it quickly. If you're captured rather than a slave from character creation, you can't do writs in the UD but have to scoot up to the surface to do them instead. And since you're not allowed to own property other than three slave quarters, who are either all constantly occupied or empty depending on the current slave population, you can end out completely out of luck for personal storage space unless your owner gives you access to their dwelling.
And surface slaves (like Sencliff or Sibayad) don't have access to a surface variant of the slave's guild, so they have to go down to the UD if they want to pursue their freedom.

The slave calling system is also incredibly frustrating. Even if you have a cool owner who won't pull you out of RP or dungeons with no warning, that doesn't stop anyone else from doing so if they want something from you. It's very frustrating to be 3/4ths through a dungeon only to suddenly get pulled out without warning or say in the matter by someone not even your owner.

On the subject of owners, if yours deletes their character without warning you, you have to get the DM's to release the contract back to the slavemaster so someone else can purchase you, which isn't unlikely to take several RL days before even being aware that said character was rolled.

And speaking of the secret freedom quest, if you're a melee character in the teens levels it's a joke that can be blitzed through in a matter of hours, but if you're a caster character you're either shit out of luck and have to wait several RL weeks to get enough things to pass through, or have friends who can buff you adequately to scrape by on the same methods that a melee character does. And if you're a poorly built melee or noncombat build? Well have fun not escaping for a long time buddy.

And finally, the prisoner collar. If you talk to the clamper while wearing a prisoner collar you get a slave collar instantly without warning or dialogue. A bug that's been around for years now and makes it rough for people who don't want to become a proper slave.

For ideas on how to make things better. Honestly, I'd make prisoner collar the only thing that existing characters can have applied to them, and leaving slave collar for character creation and DM request only, removing the methods of escape from it to actually make it a permanent thing instead of a quest that some characters can blitz through easily while some get stuck on. That way you only have people who want to be slaves wearing the slave collar, while the rest have the prisoner collars that they can get rid of pretty easily if/when they have had enough of slavery RP.

As Cerk has pointed out elsewhere. Slavery is often a route to avoid outright killing a player character.

I like that it exists but the actual mechanical consequences of slavery are as far as I see higher for being enslaved than for dying in most instances. In the event that a character is kidnapped and enslaved, it is not uncommon that characters close to them end up forking out the gold to free them.

Plenty of folks are happy to roll with those punches IC themselves (some aren't of course) but the 2 million gold then forked out by their friends are in the grand scheme, far more *mechanically* significant than a couple of hours of death penalty. (Also given how little death fear is RPed anyway, giving people a reason to be OOC guilty about slave taxing their friends by avoiding death is probably not ideal.)

Given as slavery requires consent from both parties, I don't think we can claim slave RP is no fun at all (though I'm sure it is possible to end up in an unenjoyable situation). I do think people should go in with their eyes open. Personally. I think it's possibly better to only allow a prisoner clamp and then after a given period of time allow a proper slave clamp. Means the (almost inevitable in some cases) rescue attempt does not just end up as a race to collect 2 million gold.

Collars should be made permanent and irremovable if you select at entry, unless there's DM oversight and an application in removal (Delete the, not very, secret quest). An existing character should have to apply for one of these collars.

All others should be prisoner collared and as such are removable at any time.

Slaves to no longer gain UD portals.

That would clear up most of my issues with the system.

Honestly people should just select the prisoner collar for this sort of roleplay anyway - but maybe they feel ooc'ly pressured or that it's not a viable option for continuity?

Moved to feedback.

I don't like the current slavery system and I feel it should be updated to reflect the current state of the server. I'm a newer player so I don't know how long it's been in place, but bugs like the prisoner collar becoming a slave collar without warning should not still exist. Sencliff and Sibayad should have their own freedom trail, possibly connected to the Lost Desert and Open Seas areas for flavor. There should be more quarters available for slaves to reflect the growing player-base. There should be slave quarters available in Sencliff and Sibayad.

The slave-calling system is weird because we say we want to maintain player agency and choice only to give an easy, no-way-out method for anybody on the server to drag a player without consent out of roleplay or dungeons. I understand that this was likely introduced to give weight to being a slave and to avoid slaves hiding behind locked doors, but I feel as though the very aspect of enslavement does that on its own. Players should be required to go through the usual methods of getting somebody back, whether that's paying an actual player conjurer (which they can deny, I know!), paying the slave's buddies a visit, etc. If they're not playing ball and it's getting annoying, it reflects on their sportsmanship; report it.

There should also be a more obvious gap between the prisoner collar and the slave collar in the dialogue so that players know what they're getting into. Players are not required to take the slave collar. If anybody tells you that you have to take the slave collar over the prisoner collar, you report that. It is the choice of the captured player, nobody else's. Likewise, if you are being held hostage in slave roleplay, you can report it to the DMs to have the collar removed. This is for those times when the owner sets an over-the-top price IC and refuses to budge when asked by the slave player OOC. This isn't being nice.

Work with each other until the system gets fixed. Keep the feedback clean in the meantime.

Thing is when you see a new slave nearly every day it's either a pay off of 500k or the foig method, money or time for freedom.
After awhile this gets really tedious for the ones who help try to free slaves (Often a pressure of allignment to maintain) the burnout is real.
This becomes really sad for slave #32 when they're told "Sorry I can't help you, after freeing 31 other slaves I'm sick of doing this over and over"

My bottom line issue is:

Far too easy to get into.
Not explained well enough what to expect
Too hard to get out of to facilitate constantly.

Sockss wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:31 pm Collars should be made permanent and irremovable if you select at entry, unless there's DM oversight and an application in removal (Delete the, not very, secret quest). An existing character should have to apply for one of these collars.

All others should be prisoner collared and as such are removable at any time.

Slaves to no longer gain UD portals.

That would clear up most of my issues with the system.

Honestly people should just select the prisoner collar for this sort of roleplay anyway - but maybe they feel ooc'ly pressured or that it's not a viable option for continuity?

And why should that be? Why should be life long slave be denied a story of being freed?


I would like to see it expanded that other characters can make quests to free someone.
The harpers could come in question here. Make a secret harper guild, where you make several quests to become their associate.
Then when slave contacts hidden NPC in Sibayad / Andunor and gets a token, passes that token to the associate of Harpers and said token would serve as opening of serie of quests for freeing the person (so you cannot free unwilling slave).


This quest can be hard and consist of passing few dungeons of epic variations. Like with writs, character performing it could hire people or get comrades to help along, thus filling in more people. After completing character would receive item to release that specific slave (meaning you still need to reach out for the slave).



Put timer between parts of quests, IE you complete first part, you need to give it 2-3 days to start second part...do not limit characters becoming associates by race, but aligments only (from neutral up). Make it a perk of characters promoting freedom (chaotic neutrals and good ones) regardless of race and class and keep slavery perk of evil characters.



EDIT: by Harpers associate i mean character who IS NOT a harper just helps to work off part of their work in freeing people.
Harpers (class token), could have lower timers!


EDIT2: Character who would be in proces of the quest, could be attacked by random spawned asasín NPCs or slaver squads and if would die to their attack, quest would be reseted

Thanks for moving the topic, Sollers.

Yes, that's exactly the main issue I was pointing out. The ways to free from collars are far too annoying OOCly, which ends up with alignement breaks ICly, because I'm not going to farm whole days to pay to have collars removed. It is acceptable if there's not 5 of those cases a week, but now ... Er.

Having clampers and other quests in Sencliff and Sivayad would be great, I think someone playing a pirate requested a clamper in Sencliff elsewhere. Though it takes time and work to implement.
It's good also to have pointed out RP/Dungeon breaks due to being pulled away, it's also an issue.

From what I have heard, players are not always aware of the mechanical consequences, and also I would suppose there is often some kind of IC pressure which can become also an OOC one to take the collar. (Not blaming the slavers, they're just RPing their characters ofc).

flower wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:42 pm

Sockss wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:31 pm Collars should be made permanent and irremovable if you select at entry, unless there's DM oversight and an application in removal (Delete the, not very, secret quest). An existing character should have to apply for one of these collars.

All others should be prisoner collared and as such are removable at any time.

Slaves to no longer gain UD portals.

That would clear up most of my issues with the system.

Honestly people should just select the prisoner collar for this sort of roleplay anyway - but maybe they feel ooc'ly pressured or that it's not a viable option for continuity?

And why should that be? Why should be life long slave be denied a story of being freed?


I would like to see it expanded that other characters can make quests to free someone.
The harpers could come in question here. Make a secret harper guild, where you make several quests to become their associate.
Then when slave contacts hidden NPC in Sibayad / Andunor and gets a token, passes that token to the associate of Harpers and said token would serve as opening of serie of quests for freeing the person (so you cannot free unwilling slave).


This quest can be hard and consist of passing few dungeons of epic variations. Like with writs, character performing it could hire people or get comrades to help along, thus filling in more people. After completing character would receive item to release that specific slave (meaning you still need to reach out for the slave).



Put timer between parts of quests, IE you complete first part, you need to give it 2-3 days to start second part...do not limit characters becoming associates by race, but aligments only (from neutral up). Make it a perk of characters promoting freedom (chaotic neutrals and good ones) regardless of race and class and keep slavery perk of evil characters.



EDIT: by Harpers associate i mean character who IS NOT a harper just helps to work off part of their work in freeing people.
Harpers (class token), could have lower timers!


EDIT2: Character who would be in proces of the quest, could be attacked by random spawned asasín NPCs or slaver squads and if would die to their attack, quest would be reseted

That's the kind of quest I wanted to see implemented. It's even better if it includes dungeons and all, since then it creates RP to find a "Freeing team".
If slave collar is made permanent, I'd suppose part of the population will move from slaves to outcasts. Not in favor of doing that, it'd penalize already existing characters. Characters created with slave clamps already should perhaps be harder to free, though ?

I didn't know about the slaves not being able to own property thing until very recently, I'm glad I never engaged with the system. I would be upset to lose my quarter over it. A long time ago a friend offered to do some slave RP with my char, saying it'd be a way for us to RP together since he plays Underdark and I play surface. He could enslave my char for a week or something, and in that time my character could go and mine and get resources for him to earn freedom.

It turns out, the system isn't good for that, or for playing a captive. I'd like to be a good sport and RP rather than just rely on PvP, but the slave system is incredibly bad for that. There's also a lot of hostility from players OOC towards slave characters from what I've seen as well. Rather than engage with the system, I'd ask the capturing party to just RP putting some sort of parole anklet on my character, and I'll play not being able to decline their summons. I'm not against bad things happening to my character, I just don't want to be screwed by mechanics that I don't understand.

For improvements, it would be nice if there was some sort of system in place that would allow for more roleplay, so that the example I gave of being captured to work in a mine would be viable to do without losing everything I own. Maybe have it so a captured character cannot teleport or be -yoinked. But, along with it, the collar can be broken easily if the person escapes, maybe have it be something player smiths can do. This would allow for rescue parties to come and save someone, and for capture parties to take people and not ruin whatever's going on for the captured character.

This post is mostly me Quoting peole and going' 'Yeah! What they said!' or 'But actually...'

Before I begin, this is an increadibly sticky subject and I really symapthise with many aspects of it. I will say I think the Slavery system... bascially works, but it due for some tweaking for sure. Some things that must be balenced is the desires of all parties involved.
*The desires of the Slavers to be able to capture people, and have some way to mechanically enforced. (E.g. 'Prisoner collar is meaningless because they can just break out...'
*The desires of Rescuers to be able to free Slaves 'But it's sooo expensive and we can't help and there's nothing we can dooooo!'
*The ability to make playing a slave an interesting, fun, and realistic experience, without having to succumb to pressures ooc from the two above. (That actually includes the rescuers. One of the problems with a 'lighter' slave collar is that there can be increadible stress on a slave to 'be freed.'

The only way to get off slavery without paying is to go throught the secret quest. Thus, the surfacers cannot do anything to help their friends. That makes very little sense to me.

That's... not entirely true. I mean it's partly true, but surfacers, if they know what some of the quest entails, can help their friends get through it a bit by supplying Stuff/Advice/Free Hugs.

And since you're not allowed to own property other than three slave quarters,

There are more than three slave quarters, but not many more it has to be said. Also previously we've ruled that if your 'owner' owns or is part of a guildhouse, it's allowable for the slave to have habitiation there.
This isn't to say that the above point is invalid - it is actually fairly reasonable, but I wanted to add a little clarification.

On the subject of owners, if yours deletes their character without warning you, you have to get the DM's to release the contract back to the slavemaster so someone else can purchase you, which isn't unlikely to take several RL days before even being aware that said character was rolled.

I believe after two weeks the collar automaticaly defaults back to the Slavemaster of Andunor... but the above is also true.

And finally, the prisoner collar. If you talk to the clamper while wearing a prisoner collar you get a slave collar instantly without warning or dialogue. A bug that's been around for years now and makes it rough for people who don't want to become a proper slave.

This bug is still around? Ugh. Yeah that needs to be fixed. And if anyone is caught out by is - please do contact us! We'll happily remove the collar under such circumstances.

Plenty of folks are happy to roll with those punches IC themselves (some aren't of course) but the 2 million gold then forked out by their friends are in the grand scheme, far more *mechanically* significant than a couple of hours of death penalty. (Also given how little death fear is RPed anyway, giving people a reason to be OOC guilty about slave taxing their friends by avoiding death is probably not ideal.)

The actual sum - as pointed out by someone else, is closer to 500k. But can be more dependent on other circumstnaces. It's certainly not something to be entered lightly however. And I add this just as a clarification.

I'm a newer player so I don't know how long it's been in place, but bugs like the prisoner collar becoming a slave collar without warning should not still exist. Sencliff and Sibayad should have their own freedom trail, possibly connected to the Lost Desert and Open Seas areas for flavor. There should be more quarters available for slaves to reflect the growing player-base. There should be slave quarters available in Sencliff and Sibayad.

Whilst i don't agree with all in Sollars post, this I do entirely agree with.

There should also be a more obvious gap between the prisoner collar and the slave collar in the dialogue so that players know what they're getting into. Players are not required to take the slave collar. If anybody tells you that you have to take the slave collar over the prisoner collar, you report that. It is the choice of the captured player, nobody else's. Likewise, if you are being held hostage in slave roleplay, you can report it to the DMs to have the collar removed. This is for those times when the owner sets an over-the-top price IC and refuses to budge when asked by the slave player OOC. This isn't being nice.

Work with each other until the system gets fixed. Keep the feedback clean in the meantime.

PREACH IT BROTHER!
This last bit Is just utter truth. If anyone here IS pressured OOC into taking the slave collar, or feels that they weren't given the right information oocly? LET US KNOW! This is something I myself would frown very hard upon!

Far too easy to get into.
Not explained well enough what to expect
Too hard to get out of to facilitate constantly.

Of all the posts and concerns, these sentences most closly attent do my own problems with the system. There needs to be lots of warning for how important and dangerous this system is. I don't like the idea of new players entering to this blind.
How about making it so that only rpr20+ players can take the collar? That might at least prevent brand new players getting into it by accident.

I would like to see it expanded that other characters can make quests to free someone.

See, whilst I get where this comes from, my only caution would be that there's a slight overlap between what the rescuer wants, what the slave wants, and what the -slave player- wants!
This last bit is also very important.
So let's say my character gets captured as a slave, and I'm happy to run with it. And I take the collar. ICly? My characters is miserable, tortured ect - but oocly? I'm having a blast!
Now this other player is like 'we can get this collar off. Come with me and we'll get this five min quest done. Easy peasy!'
And Icly I should go 'yeah great!'
But oocly I'm like 'Oooh, but I'm really enjoying this rp!'
If I make ic excuses, or such, then the other players, as with refusing -Yoink, or with refusing to get werewolfness cured, will sometimes be upset. Or take any sort of refusal as 'welp must be evil then because they're not letting me WIN'
Now if in the above example, the quest is sufficiently difficult, and/or slow that it can't be done in just half an hour or something - then I think it's not a bad idea, doubly so if a cunning slave-owner can sabotage it or slow it down to an extent. But there does need to be a slight balence there, so that people can have time and agency to play out their stories.

You need consent to enslave someone. You cannot force another player into making their character a slave. Period.

In light of this, I don't see why a mechanical system is needed. All it does is trap people who may have been OOCly manipulated by their captors into taking the collar (does happen) or are simply unaware of what the collar entails. Either the character in question is willing to be a slave or they aren't. If they're interested in doing slave RP the two of you can hash out how you're going to handle the slavery between yourselves. Many years ago there was a hin named Perirry Bare (sp?) who RPed being a slave in Udos for real life year(s?). He came back a husk of himself, spoke in a drow accent, and called himself Pe'ry. You don't need a collar system that is, frankly, right out of Secondlife's BDSM community to do this (and, indeed, it seems to be most often used for sexy funtimes), just roleplay.

Remove it. At the least it needs more DM oversight. It is far too abusable as it is, and adds nothing that good old roleplay couldn't accomplish on its own.

Grumpy, that is why i mentioned as condition to begin the quest token from the slave.

The player can decide whetever yes or not to initiate the quest for freedom concerning his own slave


As for slaver. Perhaps let him pay some additional shadowy buisness increasing timers on quest parts, paying for additional number of ambushes on party undertaking it?

It should not involve PVP or allow the owner to botch the attempt and make it impossible imho (while IG his property, the slave character is not his own).

I really dislike the slave system. When I was playing on the surface as a paladin, it became really tiring dealing with newly captured slaves. One point of note, the two character slaves that I did focus on helping were great--they didn't come begging for help and my character got to be more of a verbal guide and supporter rather than direct hand.

It's a huge problem that people say that "Oh, it's a prisoner collar and thus it doesn't mean anything." The prisoner collar SHOULD be good enough. It's up to both the prisoner and the capturer to make things interesting for both sides. In addition, the other players who are trying "rescue" need to allow the prisoner some time to do their thing. There is a very big focus on win at all costs (WAAC) which often doesn't allow that. (as a side note, I can appreciate that some people are not involved and get a speedy, with limited context to yoink)

My recommendations:

• The slave system (aside from creation) should be removed.
• All players look to put a bit more weight into the prisoner collar and actually use it.

flower wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:17 pm Grumpy, that is why i mentioned as condition to begin the quest token from the slave.

The player can decide whetever yes or not to initiate the quest for freedom concerning his own slave


As for slaver. Perhaps let him pay some additional shadowy buisness increasing timers on quest parts, paying for additional number of ambushes on party undertaking it?

It should not involve PVP or allow the owner to botch the attempt and make it impossible imho (while IG his property, the slave character is not his own).

You misunderstand me. I actually like your idea. My only caution with it is that it shouldn't be too 'quick and easy' because, even if it can't be 'forced' on the player in the sense of 'I click a on you and now you're free', if it's too easy then it can still ruin their rp in sublter ways.
Think of it like the 'yoink' mechanic.
Joe is captured by Underdarkers
Joe refuses a 'Yoink'
Then people tend to get ooc upset with Joe, because he has refused them their 'win'. Even if the click is 'ooc' because Joe wants to respect the rp of the people who've captured him, and is enjoying the fallout. I have heard of this happening, and honestly it's also pretty terrible, and why I actually like that there is a slave mechanic of some sort, even if it needs a tweaking.

To say again, I'm tottaly in favour of your idea Flower. I just think it needs to be something that requires a little time/effort, so the slave-player can ICly delay it or something, and get more fun from their situaiton if they want.

Also basicaly this:

In addition, the other players who are trying "rescue" need to allow the prisoner some time to do their thing. There is a very big focus on win at all costs (WAAC) which often doesn't allow that. (as a side note, I can appreciate that some people are not involved and get a speedy, with limited context to yoink)

I do think the prisoner collar needs to be more easily used.

Maybe there should be some sort of 'cost' for taking someone as a slave?

I agree with the majority of what is said here, and? I also agree with the idea of the slave system... and I believe it does require some kind of system mechanically attached, and some kind of system to provide it weight equivalent for level 30 characters ... but I also believe that the current methods are both too simplistic, too unyielding to a dynamic RP environment.

It's old and outdated. I feel it can be vastly improved upon ... and might even be superior if instead of a teleport mechanic ... it allowed the slave's owner to paralyze, daze, stun, or damage them with a command word or something ... which would keep the slave from PvPing against their master and facilitate and encourage the desire to -escape- rather than confront the owner and flout the system while they still wear it: Keeping the theme.

I am not sure, this by itself is enough ... but I do believe the current system is ... lack-luster and empty in the wrong ways and overbearing and unyielding in the wrong ways. I think if we're going to have a functioning epic-level slave system ... it should probably perform more closely equivalent to a 'gease' than a yoink.

Honestly, it could be as simple as not allowing someone with a prisoner collar to be yoinked. The player who has it can still remove it, so it becomes all on them when they want to get away (they can still discuss with the capturer too, but speaking in general)

DM GrumpyCat wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:30 pm ....

Yes we are in agreement. I listed that there should be timer. Something of like this:

Slave X comes to npc and gets a token
- "Give that thing to the guy trying to free you, it will allow him to figure out how to break the collar."

Slave then comes to a good guy. Hands over the token.

The guy hurries to the person who is either associate of the guild or if he is himself, he goes to the Harper NPC.
He takes a quest-- Go to the place X, and find item Y. It would naturally lay in the heavy dungeon (because there are also other manners to escape original Q or pay out option, this will serve only for the estabilished characters to actively engage in it!).

He succesfully finishs it. Then the character must wait lets say 2-3 IRL days. Meanwhile kicks in a script where owner paid some guild to make it harder, so the timer increases to 5 IRL days. Meanwhile various groups of NPCs ambushes the guy trying to kill him (so the quest resets and he must start anew).

5 days passed, he returns to Harper NPC and it tells him "I found out what demon upholds the collar, you must venture there and slain it" (example, can be anything).

The guy sets off and with friends kills the fiend. Another X days timer kicks in. Then NPC asks him to craft a special item (from moderately common resources, mithril and thing). When this is done, he can finally visit the slave and remove collar.

I would put in minor boosts so Harper PCs can shorten timers on the delays. To be more effective in it.

You could even tie something to the number of collars removed. If character removed X number of collars he could be titled by various NPCs (I would leave on player as choice to either make it with real name or with pseudoname like the writs are. If you signed real name of PC for the quests They would count together and make you known in the world as some kind of liberator).


Harpers could get other bonuses as They want to stay hidden.

I think . . . wait for it ~ .. is cool. (In game ofcourse)

I find it actually incredibly fun being a slave from character creation and I can attest that its not all that bad. Mind you that I started as a slave and I know my masters OOC and we all get along, but still theres alot of room for enjoyment with slavery.

I agree with alot of the points here.

Nekonecro wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:41 pm Thing is when you see a new slave nearly every day it's either a pay off of 500k or the foig method, money or time for freedom.
After awhile this gets really tedious for the ones who help try to free slaves (Often a pressure of allignment to maintain) the burnout is real.
This becomes really sad for slave #32 when they're told "Sorry I can't help you, after freeing 31 other slaves I'm sick of doing this over and over"

My bottom line issue is:

Far too easy to get into.
Not explained well enough what to expect
Too hard to get out of to facilitate constantly.

Pretty much true. But as some people suggested, I don't think that the solution is to get rid of the slave collar completely. I have some suggestions instead.

• Make it more clear that slaves can own shops and quarters inside guildhouses.

• Make it so theres a method to pay for the freedom of a slave thats above ground, but more expensive! Its really important from a mechanical and an incentives point of view that the above ground method is considerably more expensive. This way people don't just run to the above ground version and use that one instead.

• Make it so the slave caller only works for the slave master. Its kind of silly that ANYONE can teleport a slave away from their own master.

• Have some sort of interactive quest above ground that can help someone become free that doesn't involve fighting. Perhaps give it a percentage chance that every step of the way it can trigger an NPC event (like a speedy being sent) that informs their master that something may be amiss. Make that trigger event more likely to happen the faster they do the quest. So its a 5% after say 3 days between each step, but like a 95% chance if its 10 minutes between each step.

• Make slave collars of varying degrees of difficulty to get off, with varying degrees of freedoms being stripped from the player. CHOICES

• Do stuff to the prisoner collar so its more useful as an alternative to enslaving people. Like making the collar make someone incapable of teleporting places, or unyoinkable.

Make it so only the master or designed P.Cs by the master can call the slave.

Add a 'paralyze' and a 'kill button' on the collar to be used by a widget from the owner or designated P.Cs. The idea of slaves rebelling against their masters because they are stronger mechanically is something that would have been considered in slave-collar design.

The slave can mouth back, but it's rather spectacular if their head explodes right after due to the push of a button.

Finally, add an option to suppress teleportation and -yoink by a player who is wearing a slave or prisoner collar by said owners or designated P.Cs.

The distinction between the prisoner and slave collar should be in ease of removal, and that a prisoner collar cannot 'recall' a prisoner.

If a player is going to agree to be a prisoner, give the captor the proper tools to actually simulate the helplessness of the experience, so it doesn't seem contrived.

Prisoner collars would be used if they carried any weight.

I'd be for prisoner collars being made much more repressive but only lasting 1 RL day. They should be used for events and raids but not to keep prisoners long term. A ransom plot can be great but it's probably something that should be used sparingly and on targets actually worth ransoming, as in the celebrities of the server not random level 10 Hawken who are barely known yet.

I'd also remove the slave clamper entirely, make slave status you start with or something both master and slave must agree over and a DM gives the collar.

Frankly I think the slave system pushes the line of what is PG-13 more than the occasional profanity. I'm not saying remove it- it's a part of the world both fantasy and RL- but it's an area that can spiral into bad taste very quickly.

Edit.. I would like to see a more economic-based system of indentured servitude, this is something that also has RL precedent and is much more alignment neutral. Not quite sure how that would work, something like if you're captured or borrow money or etc. you are in debt to a faction a certain amount before freedoms are restored.

As others have said before me, I think this sounds like a balance issue. Balance between how easy it is to escape slavery, and the consequences being a slave brings.

The notion of a shock collar, stunning or paralyzing the slave, would be great. Often doesn't make sense that well built or epic slaves don't try to overpower their master to escape. This would at least lend some justification towards that end.

Make escape on the easier end of the spectrum, and make the consequences on the harsher end of the spectrum.

Xerah wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:26 pm I really dislike the slave system. When I was playing on the surface as a paladin, it became really tiring dealing with newly captured slaves. One point of note, the two character slaves that I did focus on helping were great--they didn't come begging for help and my character got to be more of a verbal guide and supporter rather than direct hand.

It's a huge problem that people say that "Oh, it's a prisoner collar and thus it doesn't mean anything." The prisoner collar SHOULD be good enough. It's up to both the prisoner and the capturer to make things interesting for both sides. In addition, the other players who are trying "rescue" need to allow the prisoner some time to do their thing. There is a very big focus on win at all costs (WAAC) which often doesn't allow that. (as a side note, I can appreciate that some people are not involved and get a speedy, with limited context to yoink)

My recommendations:

• The slave system (aside from creation) should be removed.
• All players look to put a bit more weight into the prisoner collar and actually use it.

As a fellow Chain Breaker, I second this.... I really don't want the quest to free someone removed since there is some good slave freeing rp, it's part of what my character is build for, but things are kinda...broken.

While most have pretty much said what I think already, including people just pointing at the clamper and not telling those captured anything about the system, pressuring them into it, etc, I will point out another issue: People also use the system to troll other players, by making them wast the 500,000 gold bribe, and then go back and get themselves collared again a day or hours later to mess with the person, and they can't really DO anything about it.

So it's become common place that I and another will need to ask OOCly if someone wants free'ed or rescued, otherwise they'll just waste your time and make everything you try to do to help INCREDIBLY frustrating and unfun.