A few bard-related things

[goblinhero]

I have a few suggestions for bard cookies, promoting more than dipping:

The little thing - QoL, really:
* Make bard song be an instant action (as the equivalent PDK ability)

The huge thing - instruments (I know this is probably somewhat out of scope at present with the hak-adventure and such):
* Sort of a mixture of how studied enemies and crafting works. Have a selection of instruments to choose from, each tied to different skills. The effect of each instrument scales with attained level (eg. 1-10). Each bard level earns you a level in an instrument (maybe epic bard levels is double or triple) - so you have to specialize in an instrument to get the very best effects. Usages are on some kind of cooldown.

Whenever you use an instrument, you do a perform check against a DC determined by the level you have in an instrument - if you clear it, the desired effect happens, and if you clear it by more than 10 - you are a step closer to getting the next level in the instrument. The higher the level, the more partymembers are effected. The catch is that you have to have someone listening to train the usage.

Sample instruments:
* The Kazzoo - annoying sounds designed for ranged taunt - tied to the Taunt skill against Disc or Concentration in some combination. Level in the kazzoo determines the effect - regular taunt for low-levels, added scaling spellfailure at higher levels.
* The harp - soothing sounds that does mass minor healing at low levels, regeneration/clearing of effects at higher levels.
* The haunting flute - mesmerizing melodies having a mass-daze effect at low levels against a will-save, scaling with level for something worse at the end-levels.
* The confusing whistle - wrecking chaos amongst your enemies, confusion at low levels, mass-confusion at higher somehow tied to perform against will-save.

[Zed]

+1 for adding the kazoo as a bard instrument.

-1 for no mayonaise.


I agree with pretty muche everything though

[sad_zav]

Bards do not need an instant action bard song, they are already very strong

[MissEvelyn]

I like everything about these suggestions. We need more pure bards =)

[CosmicOrderV]

Bards might be in an okay spot, in terms of mechanical power, if they're built in the right way, but there's a reason hardly any folks take epic bard levels. It's linear, which leads to stale and boring game-play. And, it only work with a strength focused character. Going full Charisma, or god forbid, Dexterity, isn't a fun experience.

It would definitely be nice to see some minor changes for epic bards. Quality of life stuff, or just role-play flair. Something that lets charisma and dexterity based bards shine a bit. That could happen in a number of ways, be it instant-action bard song, or class specific spell changes (Tasha's Hideous Laughter, anyone?).

As far as 'Feedback' goes on bards, they could definitely use some epic level appeal for more build versatility.

[TimeAdept]

Instant action bard an curse song would be incredibly overpowered, especially becasue it would be used in conjunction with Divine Might and Shield, as well as potentially PDK.

[MissEvelyn]

Instant action bard an curse song would be incredibly overpowered, especially becasue it would be used in conjunction with Divine Might and Shield, as well as potentially PDK.

Lock the ability at Bard 28 and it's suddenly not so overpowered.

[Sea Shanties]

Another thing about epic bards is the perform skill required for the upper level songs because nearly impossible to acquire. Maybe level 28 bards could get a perform boost to make reaching 90 skill ranks possible. This would also make them supernatural when it comes to disguises which is either overpowered or totally appropriate... I can't say which.

Custom bard songs with different effects (healing party members, confusing enemies etc) are pretty common ways to give bards more life and variety. I do think any change should reinforce their status as party support instead of making skalds and paladin/bards more viable.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

I actually really liked the idea of a party refresh (except for the bard's -encore ability) tied to a level 28+ bard level in another thread as an -encore command. It's a strong party-based ability, but a level 28+ bard isn't going to become monstrously OP with a full refresh, either. Really nice idea for a support-based class similar to a healer's respite, IMO.

[Opustus]

There is a hipster song in the vanilla version already, to wit, the Lyrics of the Lich. http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Lyrics_of_the_lich

It converts a charge of Bard song into a level 15 cast of Horrid wilting. I'm a total nub at code stuff, so I have no idea if the code for Lyrics of the Lich is easily convertible into other things, but on my former server Amia we used to have spells for True seeing and Stoneskin off of widgets that worked the same way. The glaring balance problem to consider would, of course, be Master Harper with its infinite bard songiness.

Having some very unique effects with Bard-related calculations of DC would be somewhat of an undertaking, I imagine.

About your original suggestions, goblinhero, what you suggest is already incorporated in the vanilla Bard song and Curse song, after a fashion at least.

The Kazzoo: Curse song deals damage to the whole bunch of mobs. The way AI works is that they prioritise the target according to the damage dealer -- this is the main reason why -guard tends to bug AI into a still-stand shuffle. So, it's a sort of a taunt because it provokes enemies to attack the bard. The damage from Curse song causes a Concentration check for spellcasting if timed right.

The harp: It's no regeneration, but the basic Bard song yields temporary hit points. At higher ranks, it's nothing to sneer at!

The haunting flute: The Curse song decreases saves and skills. With a sprinkle of imagination, you can pretend that your character is in fact playing a haunting flute!

The confusing whistle: Oh, well, there's only so much a girl can pretend.

About the QoL suggestion: It's actually a buff even if you might call it or disguise it as QoL. Bards are susceptible to attacks and waste a round in combat having to cast their Song. By making it a free action, you practically allow Master harpers to spam their songs midfight, allow bards to perform other actions while casting their songs (notably, spellcasting, wands, etc.). This is because free actions bypass the action queue: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Instant_feat. I'd consider that a remarkable buff!

Further, there is a minigame of micro-skill involved in the current state of Bard song usage. This works with other actions, most notably Whirlwind attack, when the server is relatively lag-free. The gist of it is that you can activate the Bard song while moving towards the enemy spawn; you stop to end action within the same round, which allows the Song to be cast at the speed of the animation. So it's not instant but it's definitely faster. This works with Whirlwind and retains its effectiveness throughout the game, allowing the player to practically Whirlwind attack some mobs of the spawn for free once per fight. This "glitch" can't be used in toe-to-toe combat, which restricts its usefulness to the beginning of combat.

[goblinhero]

Thanks for the feedback - I hadn't really considered the implications of harper scouts and such. I think you are right that maybe it could be a 28th cookie for the pure bard with the instant bard-song.

And maybe the instruments could be akin to a path, so you'd have to give something or other up for them. The whole idea should be to introduce some flair and variety to the pure bards (as some also mentioned - especially with cha- and dex-based bards in particular.

[Opustus]

In my humbledore it's absurd that there isn't a workable build for pure bard except for the justifiably rare case of Master Harper and that bard+paladin pervades the server as the norm rather than the anomaly.

I think the song is definitely a way to make a spellbard work. The amount of songs per day limits the amount of "spells" per day akin to how Lich Lyrics works; scalability with CHA helps meet the hulking perform requirement for the best possible songs and synergises with spells per day; it enacts the archetype of the vainglorious and hands-off bard who leaves nasty violence to devoted brutes. The level 30 restriction is also an easy balancing act even though it might happen at the cost of build diversity.

EDIT: To give some easy suggestions of spells working on song charges, there are great utility spells like Mass blindness/deafness, Mass charm, Sunburst, Thunderclap, and so on. There's even the amazing looking unpublished spell Tide of battle that could be set on a cooldown on use: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Tide_of_battle