Arelith

I picked this spell just to use as an example.

You either have it active and possibly overperforming or else it's down and you're possibly underperforming.

What if instead of giving a +1 to +5 attack and damage it gave a +1 to +2 attack and damage, but you had a further +1 to +2 soft attack and damage baked into clerics and paladins at appropriate levels? You're a bit weaker at the top end but the floor is higher as well.

It does decrease the skill around resource management which I have mixed emotions about, but thought I'd toss the idea out there for others to weigh in. I don't think you'd want to give this treatment to every short term spell/ability, but I could see a few more that could make decent choices if the idea isn't considered detrimental to what the server would want to see. Figured I'd toss the idea out to see people's input on it.

Clerics would be closer (or even match) full bab classes before this spell is even casted and paladins would reach WM ab tier. So no, I'm against such tweak.

xanrael wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:06 pm It does decrease the skill around resource management

That too.

Clerics need that +5 enhancement a lot more than paladins do. They don't come close in terms of damage already, and its already one of the less played classes as a whole.

I don't have a stance on this, but here's some math.


Cleric 27/Bard 3, the new meta for Battleclerics. 20 BAB, 13 STR modifier by level 30. WF/EWF, an MDam weapon. Aid on Turns/lvl means it can basically always be up. Total AB: 40. Between Divine Power/Favor and Battletide, that AB becomes 52. Clerics are low-AB until they opt for their burst.

With what you suggest (albeit slightly modified to be +3 tops on Divine Favor and +2 base), Clerics would get 42 AB consistently, then burst up to 52 still. No net change.


Paladin 23/Fighter 4/Rogue 3), 25 BAB, 13 STR modifier by level 30. WF/EWF, a +4 from Bless Weapon, Aid on Turns/lvl. Total AB: 46. Between Divine Favor and Holy Sword, that AB becomes 52. Paladins are also burst builds, but are consistent for other melee.

With what you suggest (again with the +3 tops), Paladins would get 48 AB (1 lower than a Weapon Master, about the same as a Ranger) consistently, then burst up to 52. No net change on the top-end.


That's the way I'd do it. I don't think lowering their overall burst-able AB is a good idea, personally, but that's really the only opinion I have on what you suggested.

Appreciate the math and you're right.

I'm not even sure how the idea would play out, a big reason I posted it was to see the opinions of people on that "style" of change.

It means both classes (who are not weak by any means) would just be less susceptible to being dispelled as they would retain more ab/damage (and that's a buff to classes who dont need a buff imo) and make them straight up more powerful in pve when they fly around without those short duration buffs cause they save them for tough encounters and boss encounters. I personally see no reason for this sort of buff.