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On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:54 pm
by Aren
Is it fine to drown out opinions or viewpoints that differ from your own by trolling threads into oblivion?
Maybe it's just me being paranoid, but I seem to be detecting a pattern in threads where viewpoints differ wildly. Anytime there's a somewhat valid conversation or debate going on, or someone is at least trying to have one - it seems to get purposely drowned in trollish behaviour, which ends up in the locking of the thread.
Or maybe people on the forums are just incapable of having a discussion like *normal* people?
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:56 pm
by Nitro
Well, when people of differing opinions are incapable of having a rational discussion like adults without flinging insults, hyperbole or just repeating their opinion over and over, the thread starts becoming memed to death because the discussion is already dead. These forums are perfectly capable of having a normal discussion (As has been proven by the many multi-page threads littered through various subforums), but some folks are determined to make their voice heard the loudest, which usually just makes the entire topic lose all of its legitimacy if it goes on for too long.
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:00 pm
by Durvayas
There are people on the forums who have a long history of getting threads locked by trolling, being insulting, and simply arguing in bad faith until the thread is derailed or the people involved seriously in the thread bail on it. We're all guilty of a a few missteps here and there.
However, how some of these people have not simply been banned from the forums is beyond me.
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:04 pm
by Aren
Durvayas wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:00 pm
How some of these people have not simply been banned from the forums is beyond me.
That makes me wonder as well. I voiced my concerns to Spyre back when the "Improving The Arelith Community" thread was locked due to people trolling around, while others were trying to have a meaningful exchange of ideas and viewpoints - that trolling seems to be
weaponized in the sense, that if you don't like what someone is saying, you just start clowning around dropping names and instances of IG happenings, and voila - thread locked.
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:06 pm
by l33tfragiletings
Nitro wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:56 pm
These forums are perfectly capable of having a normal discussion, but some folks are determined to make their voice heard the loudest, which usually just makes the entire topic lose all of its legitimacy if it goes on for too long.
Both sides have people who aren't capable of carrying out a normal discussion. They're overzealous on a topic and instead of hashing out issues that can be discussed, turn anthills into mountains. Some of these issues are just small problems stretched to become a pseudo-massive issue. I think the only time to carry out a reasonable conversation, then, is have the ability to listen and peacefully problem-solve situations as they occur.
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:08 pm
by l33tfragiletings
Because how I see it right now? Sensible and reasonable conversation cannot happen because people are just pointing fingers and accusing without having the entire story. It's important to just rationalize the situation, take a step back and have a friendly debate on issues people are concerned about.
Edit: Have an open ear. But coming off with accusations makes people put walls up.
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:22 pm
by ASuicideMissionForSure
once upon a time there was a competent forum mod that kept order in the house without locks
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:26 pm
by Zavandar
well the thread this is obviously referencing started with an accusation
that thread was locked, btw. I don think think making this is the wisest course of action
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:39 pm
by Durvayas
If I'm being entirely frank, and I'm well aware I'm not an angel myself...
The forum moderators, in my opinion, could stand to be a bit more ruthless about silencing trolls on the forums. A great deal of people don't bother with the forums, because the moderators have a light hand, and the forums can, and do, become every bit as salty as the discord. The value of the information gleaned here is, for many, not worth the belittlement, vitriol, and trolling one has to wade through to get it. One need only look at just about any discussion about PvP balance to know exactly what I'm talking about.
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:54 pm
by Dirac
Zavandar wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:26 pm
well the thread this is obviously referencing started with an accusation
that thread was locked, btw. I don think think making this is the wisest course of action
Why not?
The OP's post in no way mirrors the hard accusations of the Accountability thread.
I think the OP has a legitimate concern in regards to other's views getting muddied by folks who are clearly trying to get threads locked.
I think that the mentality and "must win" attitude has spilled onto the forums. Whenever there is a dissenting opinion, it's much easier to "win" the argument by forcing the thread to get locked. Or more conniving, insinuating that someone is making false accusations when they are simply expressing concerns.
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:57 pm
by Zavandar
because unresolved issues from the thread this is, again, obviously referencing will spill into it
your post is testament to that
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:49 pm
by CosmicOrderV
Zavandar you kinda seem to be doing exactly what OP is referring to.
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:56 pm
by Aren
Predictable. Thank you for proving my point.
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:57 pm
by Faint
You seem to troll threads rather often. This thread is literally raising awareness about what you're doing right now. I'm surprised you still have posting privileges, frankly.
He's trying to foster a discussion about a legitimate issue and you're just shitposting to derail it and sabotage it.
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:05 pm
by l33tfragiletings
Faint wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:57 pm
You seem to troll threads rather often. This thread is literally raising awareness about what you're doing right now. I'm surprised you still have posting privileges, frankly.
He's trying to foster a discussion about a legitimate issue and you're just shitposting to derail it and sabotage it.
Can you just calm things down? It's clear they're just trying to joke around. Being
rude doesn't solve anything.
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:06 pm
by Aren
Faint wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:57 pm
You seem to troll threads rather often. This thread is literally raising awareness about what you're doing right now. I'm surprised you still have posting privileges, frankly.
He's trying to foster a discussion about a legitimate issue and you're just shitposting to derail it and sabotage it.
While I appreciate the sentiment Faint, just ignore this guy. There's nothing to be gained from interacting with them.
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:07 pm
by Zavandar
CosmicOrderV wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:49 pm
Zavandar you kinda seem to be doing exactly what OP is referring to.
you confuse trolling with disagreeing
the creation of this thread is just an attempt to circumvent another locked thread while tempers are still running hot. do you think that's a good idea?
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:09 pm
by HA GOTEM I DIDNT ROLL
But, if we want to stay on topic derived from the OP's purpose - let's go that route.
It is fine to post your own opinion in a sarcastic manner, because that's free speech. Just because I want to post something in a comedic fashion to make light of a stupid situation that was born out of anger and misinformation, does not mean that you can disclaim any validity to that notion. You are being paranoid. Yes, viewpoints differ wildly. Sorry buddy, there are other people in this world and you live in it.
And yes, we're all 'normal' people. Even you, OP.
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:13 pm
by Iceborn
Classy, people.
Never change, my dear forum.
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:13 pm
by Aren
Zavandar wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:07 pm
CosmicOrderV wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:49 pm
Zavandar you kinda seem to be doing exactly what OP is referring to.
you confuse trolling with disagreeing
the creation of this thread is just an attempt to circumvent another locked thread while tempers are still running hot. do you think that's a good idea?
No, it isn't an attempt to circumvent a locked thread. It's a legitimate concern due to previous threads made before the one you keep referencing.
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:14 pm
by Faint
If people want to reply to posts with genuinely constructive feedback and opinions, fantastic. That's the point of a forum. The OP isn't disparaging the posting of different opinions.
He's pointing out that many people don't post with the intention of providing constructive input, criticism, or feedback. On the contrary, they post simply to sabotage the threads with troll-posts, malicious ad-hominem, and general flaming of the OP, rather than logical, civil counterarguments to their points. It is often an attempt to get them locked, which tends to be quite successful.
Constructive criticism is great. What he's referencing isn't constructive criticism. It's sabotage.
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:16 pm
by HA GOTEM I DIDNT ROLL
Faint wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:14 pm
If people want to reply to posts with genuinely constructive feedback and opinions, fantastic. That's the point of a forum. The OP isn't disparaging the posting of different opinions.
He's pointing out that many people don't post with the intention of providing constructive input, criticism, or feedback. On the contrary, they post simply to sabotage the threads with troll-posts, malicious ad-hominem, and general flaming of the OP, rather than logical, civil counterarguments to their points. It is often an attempt to get them locked, which tends to be quite successful.
Constructive criticism is great. What he's referencing isn't constructive criticism. It's sabotage.
what he's
saying is that we're all devolved lunatics and he's in the right, and you're agreeing with him.
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:19 pm
by CosmicOrderV
Zavandar wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:07 pm
CosmicOrderV wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:49 pm
Zavandar you kinda seem to be doing exactly what OP is referring to.
you confuse trolling with disagreeing
the creation of this thread is just an attempt to circumvent another locked thread while tempers are still running hot. do you think that's a good idea?
We'll never know, because it's too late. I've had DM wraith remove a post of mine from the forums, for exactly the same sort of antics Ha Got Em Didn't Roll is pulling right now.
Alas like Durvayas said, perhaps we do just need heavier moderation.
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:23 pm
by Queen Titania
Jokes are fine, though it is important to be tasteful with them and know when to use them. I think a joke is best used when you follow it up with a serious point, as it acknowledges you are taking it seriously.
I.E., the gif by itself can be taken the wrong way. The Gif with a thoughtful contribution would be generally better. Same as sarcasm, it can be wielded well, but it can also quickly offend resulting in a thread being broken down fast.
In general if a post is inappropriate flag it and we will review it. I will be deleting a lot of inappropriate messages in this thread, please continue constructively with respectful seelie discourse.
Re: On derailing threads
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:52 pm
by Marsi
When bad actors in the community are trying to influence public perception of the team through plausibly deniable Civil Debate™ (read: sea lioning), yeah, mockery and calling the bluff is an effective foil.
