Arelith

I always loved the citizenship system and it has involved a lot in the years,
Something I did wonder though, You pay 10k and you're a citizen, Aslong as you like.

I would make a tiny-winy adjustment: Taxes. Personally I would settle for 500 gp a month.

Pro:
-Settlements have more spending money, Wich may most often lead to more RP.
-Citizens placed to just support in elections slowly get weeded out or have to be active once in a while to gain coin.

Con:
-people spending 500 gp a month on taxes.

What is with your obsession with making people pay higher taxes?

It would also mean that shelved characters log in after few months/years and have 0 gold in the bank and no citizenship. Nah. I'm against this idea. I also think that settlements already get far greater income than their spending with the current tax system and this change would just make them drain out everyone over time and have tens of milions which they have nothing to do with. That would decrease the RP, not increase it.

Nothing in life is certain except death and taxes.

Meza thinks someone wants higher settlement income to keep up exiles more easily and longer...

As I am not against raising taxes (IC not OOC) I don't think a 500gp monthly tax for just being a citizen is justified. You get taxed on your wares that you sell (maybe raise that percentage) you get taxed on your housing (maybe increase that too?) But to be taxed on citizenship when you really don't get any perks for just being a citizen, well that's how the revolutionary war started (not really but you get the idea)

Durvayas wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:32 pm What is with your obsession with making people pay higher taxes?

I'm evil.

RandomX wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:03 pm As I am not against raising taxes (IC not OOC) I don't think a 500gp monthly tax for just being a citizen is justified. You get taxed on your wares that you sell (maybe raise that percentage) you get taxed on your housing (maybe increase that too?) But to be taxed on citizenship when you really don't get any perks for just being a citizen, well that's how the revolutionary war started (not really but you get the idea)

I agree in the way, That there should be more perks, Like exclusivity to buying houses (Not to mention you are perked with a FREE vault already)

Astral wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:41 pm It would also mean that shelved characters log in after few months/years and have 0 gold in the bank and no citizenship. Nah. I'm against this idea. I also think that settlements already get far greater income than their spending with the current tax system and this change would just make them drain out everyone over time and have tens of milions which they have nothing to do with. That would decrease the RP, not increase it.

When I shelved my "Cordorian" I emptied her vault and removed her citizenship.
Cause resources decrease on the number of citizens a settlement has.

So, Yes, If you shelved a character for a few months/years with an active citizenship, I think you should have 0 gold and no citizenship as you have been a burden to a settlement all that time for no reason.

But there ARE perks to citizenship now. Storage, food/water, access to the settlement's properties, I would argue voting is a perk/privilege too - and I expect more will come as the system is expanded. Shelved characters that are worried about their gold getting drained only have to remember to revoke their citizenship.

Still, I don't think this is going to end up doing anything about ballot box stuffing. The people who make new characters just so they can vote will continue doing so. And the people who dust off shelved pawns for the purpose of voting will probably just switch to making new characters instead. While I support a tax in theory, that's with the ideal circumstances in mind. As things stand, I don't see it accomplishing much in practice - except for cleaning the proverbial cobwebs in a given settlement.

I don't know how taxes work in any other country, but in the US, there's no "default" citizenship tax. You don't just get taxed for being a citizen of the United States. You might have to pay sales tax, or property tax, or income tax, but you don't just pay a tax. This was similar in Medieval England, where at various times there were taxes based on lands owned, moveable property (stuff) owned, etc.

This is already somewhat accounted for in rent. Rent increases as you "improve" your quarters. This could be expanded upon a bit, if necessary, or one could be taxed based on the gold value of their inventory, or something. Again, I'm not saying this *should* be done, rather that it makes more sense to me than a flat citizenship tax.

It would also, as others have pointed out, need to account for time played. Taxing inactive characters would be a huge detriment to those characters.

I do like any idea that could limit character camping in settlements that only appear come election time.

For RP simulation 500gp a month + whatever percentage tax on citizenships would not be too bad...so long as the maximum wasn't too crazy!

DM Titania wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:41 pm For RP simulation 500gp a month + whatever percentage tax on citizenships would not be too bad...so long as the maximum wasn't too crazy!

This could very well also weed out the folks that are low level and only active around voting times.
Hmm.

JubJub wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:26 pm I do like any idea that could limit character camping in settlements that only appear come election time.

What s/he said.

DM Titania wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:41 pm For RP simulation 500gp a month + whatever percentage tax on citizenships would not be too bad...so long as the maximum wasn't too crazy!

Dunno if it wouldn't be 'too bad,' but it wouldn't be fun, I know that. Like, what? The more negatives people add to the settlement system, the less people will use or care about it period. Which you don't want, seeing how much effort and resources gets poured toward city stuff.

A Citizenship tax would help with keeping citizens active. As for those who only log in once in a while? They're not really active, now, are they? They don't get to benefit much either other than voting, which is a bit of an issue if their only incentive to vote is that someone from Discord told them to do so.

So, surprisingly, I'm actually for this tax. More benefits to citizens over non-citizens is also something I'm for.
Though, Nobles should get a reduced tax, because they're nobility and they're special and their status makes them better than the rest of us

If it helps weed out the inactive voters then I'm all for it. Like magistrasa said, probably wont acompkish much at the moment, but if and when the settlement system gains more dynamics, some sort of increased tax would be great. Especially if it meant shelved characters lose out. Just join back in on the fun when you unshelf them. Its a drain on the settlement, and allows for cheesey voting.

CosmicOrderV wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:29 pm If it helps weed out the inactive voters then I'm all for it. Like magistrasa said, probably wont acompkish much at the moment, but if and when the settlement system gains more dynamics, some sort of increased tax would be great. Especially if it meant shelved characters lose out. Just join back in on the fun when you unshelf them. Its a drain on the settlement, and allows for cheesey voting.

Personally I think we can solve this by simply removing PCs that haven't been active for three weeks from the rolls, and making it so that someone has to be a citizen for a week before they can vote.

That ends cheezy day-of voting registration of new PCs, and purges inactives from the rolls well enough I'd think.

Huschpfusch wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:48 pm Meza thinks someone wants higher settlement income to keep up exiles more easily and longer...

Any settlement that isn't making enough money from sales taxes and rent in a single month to already cover all of their gold-based exile costs is doing something horribly wrong. Even Myon, with almost all of its shops closed to non-elven customers, can pay for its exile costs twice over off a single month's income already.