Arelith

Greeting!

I would wish to give feedback on the current state of the barbarian Terrifying rage, with comparison to a very similar skill for PDK Fear, and Fear Aura note i am taking the reference in a Player versus Player scenario as a basic standpoint for the feedback.

Epic barbarians can take Terrifying rage as a Epic Feat if they meet the requirements of epic barbarian 21st level, greater rage (4x per day), intimidate 25.

Human template racial:

PDK gain the effects of Fear, however it requires them to take the vanguard path to fully utilize its benefits.

Terrifying rage DC: [(Intimidate/5)+(Hit Dice/2)+(Base CON Modifier)+5]
We use the basic wikipedia exemple and do the math with a 18 CON base con, the rest would go into strength otherwise it cannot reach the other Epic feat for thundering rage. 7(35/5)+15(30/2)+4(18 con equals 4 modifier)+5(base) = 31 vs fear

PDK Fear DC: 15 + Knight Class Levels + Intimidate / 3
We consider the same class modifiers as above, 15(base) + 10(class) + 12(35 intimidate /3) = 37 vs fear

As for the effects and duration.

Terrifying rage:
-4 AB
-4 Saving Throws
+20% spell failure
- 1/2 round stun

Duration: 1d3+4 rounds average 5-6 rounds duration.

PDK fear:
(vanguard selection, otherwise halve penalties)

-4 AB
-4 AC
-4 Saving Throws
+20% spell failure

Duration: 1 turn (Static) (10 rounds).

Fear Aura (fright)
-10 AB
-10 Saving Throws
-10 Skills
-10 AC
+50% Spell Failure

I would like make the feedback that these numbers seems a bit odd, related to the fact that terrifying rage seems just.. worse than than the regular ability of a class (thou with a chosen path) with the fact that it costs a Epic feat to acquire and overall falls short in duration, DC and does now lower the AC of the target.

The only thing Terrifying rage has going for it, is (a very useful) Mini stun, and better effects against non-player characters.. however you're far less likely to manage to trigger said effect in comparison due to the DC calculation being worse, i imagine most Barbarians could push the DC by 2-3 points landing at a 34 if they focused on acquiring items with intimidation.

I would suggest a minor "umph" being given to the epic feat, in proportion to the feat, also being considered a class feature closely tied to the rage ability.

[My biased Opinion]
It would seem reasonable that minor adjustments to the DC calculation possibly by improving the base DC to 10 on terrifying rage, add a debuff to AC like the other fear-related abilities (lesser, and norm fear aura and PDK fear) as a cause and possible adjust the duration to 1d4+1+ Con modifier?

Though overall, lack if -4 AC seems to be the one thing that seems out of place, compared to the "general" effect all other fear related effects have.

That 3 second mini stun is why it can't be buffed that much more.

In the hands of a barbarian, 3 seconds of a flat footed enemy is enough for them to deal a lot of damage, most target will fail the save, because spellcraft does not apply.

Shadowy Reality wrote: Tue May 21, 2019 5:24 pm That 3 second mini stun is why it can't be buffed that much more.

In the hands of a barbarian, 3 seconds of a flat footed enemy is enough for them to deal a lot of damage, most target will fail the save, because spellcraft does not apply.

Good point, i would still loved to see the -x AC, after all beyond the +2 AB barbarians have no other ways to enchant their chance to actually hit considering how high the general AC is these days, but it makes sense that this could break the fragile balance it already provides.

Question thou:
Everyone however all have the freedom of mobility belt these days from the UD cage fight, does the stun bypass the freedom of mobility buff?

White_935 wrote: Tue May 21, 2019 5:30 pm Question thou:
Everyone however all have the freedom of mobility belt these days from the UD cage fight, does the stun bypass the freedom of mobility buff?

That belt does not provide Freedom, and Freedom does not protect you from the stun.

yellowcateyes wrote: Tue May 21, 2019 5:58 pm

White_935 wrote: Tue May 21, 2019 5:30 pm Question thou:
Everyone however all have the freedom of mobility belt these days from the UD cage fight, does the stun bypass the freedom of mobility buff?

That belt does not provide Freedom, and Freedom does not protect you from the stun.

Thank you for the information

In my humble opinion:

The barbarian's fear aura is definitely more dangerous than a Vanguard, because:
*It is applied on top of an already powerful core ability of the class
*It moves around the character, with is mobile at 150% speed
*It has no casting time, raging being an immediate action
*The 3 seconds of stun can kill a great deal of characters, or utterly ruin them beyond PvP recovery
*It is available with every rage use

Contrast with an ability that:
*Requires a specific path within a prestige class to be used to the fullest
*Is a ranged ability that affects a small area
*Is a standard action


Generally, two completely different abilities though. Comparing them without their respective kits is kinda silly.
But I did rebuild and drop Vanguard because I didn't find it particularly fun.

As someone who is actively playing a Barb with T-rage I can say it doesn't need buffed, or really nerfed. There are counters but you can always pop rage and get into range before someone is able to pop a clarity to prevent the stun.

Worth mentioning that you can take terry rage with 16 barbarian lvls, not 21.

Astral wrote: Wed May 22, 2019 4:32 am Worth mentioning that you can take terry rage with 16 barbarian lvls, not 21.

Pretty sure its actually 15, not 16.