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Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:43 am
by blksabbath74
This is based on a discussion on the Myon Discord, from which I will this thread.

We had discussed rebranding Myon as the Venice of Arelith, which I think could be done with some Dev updates to Myon and the Temple of Silvanus area, without abandoning the Mythal Portal mechanic, which, from my understanding is sacrosanct. However, even without a dev update, I think that the use of craftable fixtures could do a great deal to create this effect.

I will list both below separate dev and player changes I would make.

Re: Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:18 pm
by CosmicOrderV
I'm sure the Hapsburgs thought themselves sacrosanct in 1848, too. :geek:

Re: Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:43 am
by Nevrus
I'm waiting for this post to never get finished

Re: Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:32 am
by blksabbath74
Nevrus wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:43 am I'm waiting for this post to never get finished
I already took so much flak for the idea of putting placeables in the Temple of Silvanus area I'm seriously considering never finishing it...

Re: Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:59 am
by Nevrus
I do actually want to see this plan though, out of curiosity! Also, when I think of Venice I think of canals. Is that what you were going for, or was it a more political ideology?

Re: Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:10 am
by MajorArcana
blksabbath74 wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:32 am
Nevrus wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:43 am I'm waiting for this post to never get finished
I already took so much flak for the idea of putting placeables in the Temple of Silvanus area I'm seriously considering never finishing it...
The Temple of Silvanus is a place of nature worship. He's a god that preaches growing new plantlife where you go, and fighting against deforestation and people who would disturb the Balance through the destruction of nature. Putting in social fixtures such as couches and sexy elven fun times cushions would be a blasphemy to that god in particular (not to mention that there's enough of them in Myon proper).

People who care for the forests, and particularly nature-driven elves, would probably relocate the fixtures elsewhere or destroy them in a ritual of consignment.

Personally, I believe Myon itself does need a visual overhaul. Maybe the Temple, too. But I'd prefer for the potential changes and fixtures to make sense for the area they occupy. Don't let the opinions of others discourage you, just be mindful of what they're saying and use it as constructive criticism for alternative ideas.

Re: Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:30 am
by blksabbath74
MajorArcana wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:10 am
The Temple of Silvanus is a place of nature worship. He's a god that preaches growing new plantlife where you go, and fighting against deforestation and people who would disturb the Balance through the destruction of nature. Putting in social fixtures such as couches and sexy elven fun times cushions would be a blasphemy to that god in particular (not to mention that there's enough of them in Myon proper).

People who care for the forests, and particularly nature-driven elves, would probably relocate the fixtures elsewhere or destroy them in a ritual of consignment.

Personally, I believe Myon itself does need a visual overhaul. Maybe the Temple, too. But I'd prefer for the potential changes and fixtures to make sense for the area they occupy. Don't let the opinions of others discourage you, just be mindful of what they're saying and use it as constructive criticism for alternative ideas.
Well, if we're really hewing strictly to the D&D idea of Silvanus, why does he have a big stone temple at all? Isn't that completely incongruous with his nature, especially surrounded as it is my ruins and the gated to the Mythal portal?

If it makes sense for Silvanus to have a temple at all, it certainly doesn't make sense to have a huge stone temple crammed in front of the entrance to Myon. If anything, that should be the Temple of Corellon Latherian or something.

Don't we already have a Grove two screens over, that is far more appropriate to the worship of Silvanus?

Anyway, enough people have already said that they would destroy any improvements that I have no plans to go through with it, but I will lay out my ideas...just to share them.

Re: Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:19 am
by Babylon System is the Vampire
If I were going to rebuild Myon, I would move the temple of Silvanus elsewhere to start. I would make beneath the mythal where the temple is now the "half-elf" area, and actually move the majority of the content down there so people can interact with the city without being an elf. I would have one map up in the mythal with a tower in the center (which would be the current tower) surrounded by mostly gardens, so that part of the city is preserved and the elves have someplace to go and feel high and mighty about themselves, while still having the majority of time being spent down below where interaction can happen with the outside world. I would also make a guildhouse, because we sentinels are about to be the largest pc army on the server and are sharing one storage box >_>.

But yeah, basically the idea would be to make the city more interactive without loosing the lore of the Mythal and the floating part of Myon.

Re: Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:00 pm
by blksabbath74
Nevrus wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:59 am I do actually want to see this plan though, out of curiosity! Also, when I think of Venice I think of canals. Is that what you were going for, or was it a more political ideology?
Not political idealogy...yes...canals, trade and ambience.

I would make the area below Myon a river hub, if redesigning it, a bit bigger, surrounded mostly by chasm instead of cliff, with some nice waterfalls. I would leave the area more open and natural, criss-crossed with rivers and bridges.

I would add some structures and rows of lighting (the torch poles look a bit like gaslight) for ambience, to give it the feel of a trade hub. I would add some sort of outdoor cafe, with a food/wine seller similar to the other taverns, that PCs could work if they wished.

Obviously a writ agent and a peddler of some sort, and bring down the traders from the back corner of Myon.

In addition, add a few river boats that could take PCs to river locations. Nothing that would break the game, but places useful enough to be more than a gimmick. Basically an inland river hub, similar to what is being talked about for Crow's Nest.
- Riverbank east of Burrowhome
- Cordor Frontier off of secret garden on Darrowdeep trail.
- Minmir Bridge

This would make Myon accessible earlier to starting elves, and give it a bit more purpose.

I would also make the caravan run to Brog.

Re: Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:18 pm
by blksabbath74
Babylon System is the Vampire wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:19 am If I were going to rebuild Myon, I would move the temple of Silvanus elsewhere to start. I would make beneath the mythal where the temple is now the "half-elf" area, and actually move the majority of the content down there so people can interact with the city without being an elf. I would have one map up in the mythal with a tower in the center (which would be the current tower) surrounded by mostly gardens, so that part of the city is preserved and the elves have someplace to go and feel high and mighty about themselves, while still having the majority of time being spent down below where interaction can happen with the outside world. I would also make a guildhouse, because we sentinels are about to be the largest pc army on the server and are sharing one storage box >_>.

But yeah, basically the idea would be to make the city more interactive without loosing the lore of the Mythal and the floating part of Myon.
Exactly...I like the Mythal Portal, but the elves need somewhere to interact with other races.

Honestly, I don't hate Myon as it is...but I'd give it a permanent sunset environmental effect, and add a number of candelabras for a more romantic ambience.

I would also throw in some more trees in the open air floating areas to make it seem a little closer to the ground and a bit more natural.

I also wish the outer ring was a little less symmetrical, a little more labyrinthine, with tables, chairs and sofas, plants and flowers in some of the empty areas. Make it feel less military and more lived in but elegant. It should feel like exploring a small European town.

Maybe add a couple of NPCs, definitely a guild house, and a bar in the Respite with a wine seller.

I wouldn't change a thing on the inner tower area or bridges to get there.

Re: Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:30 pm
by blksabbath74
As for the Temple of Silvanus, move it to an area adjacent to the grove, let it be in a small area of untouched wilderness (not even a road/trail) and 'build' it out of trees.

Don't remember exactly what structures are available in that tile set, but if there are 2-story wooden palisades, use a couple of those and then add foliage, using trees as columns, to basically create a temple grown from the trees.

Re: Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:47 pm
by blksabbath74
As to what we could do now...as players...if the idea was acceptable...

Myon
- add tables, chairs, sofas, candelabras, pillows, plants and flowers to break up the monotony a bit, in small, tasteful groupings around the outer circle (or square) of Myon.

Temple of Silvanus
- Use tables, chairs and stools to create an open cafe are south of temple just on the right of the road if you are coming from the South.
- Use torchpoles to create rows of lighting.
- Place 2 sofas and some plants/flowers along the inside of the golden walls leading to the portal on both sides, creating a social area. Place an Art Crafting Station on one side and a Sewing Station on the other.
- Use the square of ruins to create a 'kitchen' for the cafe, with a cooking station, alchemy table and a forge.
- Place a Carpentry Station near the archery range.
- Place an Enchanting Pool in the southeast corner.

That would create an area that could at least be roleplayed as an inland river trade hub, and would be conducive to social interaction, roleplay, and hosting events.

Re: Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:47 pm
by blksabbath74
As to what we could do now...as players...if the idea was acceptable...

Myon
- add tables, chairs, sofas, candelabras, pillows, plants and flowers to break up the monotony a bit, in small, tasteful groupings around the outer circle (or square) of Myon.

Temple of Silvanus
- Use tables, chairs and stools to create an open cafe area south of temple just on the right of the road if you are coming from the South.
- Use torchpoles to create rows of lighting.
- Place 2 sofas and some plants/flowers along the inside of the golden walls leading to the portal on both sides, creating a social area. Place an Art Crafting Station on one side and a Sewing Station on the other.
- Use the square of ruins to create a 'kitchen' for the cafe, with a cooking station, alchemy table and a forge.
- Place a Carpentry Station near the archery range.
- Place an Enchanting Pool in the southeast corner.

That would create an area that could at least be roleplayed as an inland river trade hub, and would be conducive to social interaction, roleplay, and hosting events.

Re: Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:59 pm
by Irongron
As some of you may recall last year I spent a number of months working on a new city, to be positioned on the previously unexplored north-eastern slopes of the Skull Crags.

This is a vast project, and while I wanted to have it completed I both underestimated the time it would take to have our first HAK package ready (very soon now I hope), and was then taken entirely off Arelith development due to a professional project for NWN with Ossian Studios (details should also be announced soon).

As you all probably noticed I've been very active on Arelith development as that project came to a close, and will be soon be working exclusively, once again, on the city. Even with my own full attention, and that of other developers I expect it may take a few months to be entirely ready.

I mention this here because part of the new city is the Elven Quarter. I've neve really felt Arelith catered for the 'city elf' and I think this addition well worthile.

The important part - This quarter of the city is governed by Myon, and has direct portal access for Elven citizens between the two. Myon itself will be reworked afterwards with one of the new tilesets, but will be SMALLER - and while still protected by the Mythal the bulk of Elven civilisation (and RP) on Arelith will not longer take place in exclusion.

Here are images from the Elven Quarter. I've done the bulk of the area work both for the city and surrounding landscape, which is the lion's share of the work, but there is still a long way to go. If players really want to help out I'll accept suggestions for Elven NPCs (along with their descriptions and suggestions for bits of dialog here in this chat. What I cannot do is rework the areas themselves, as that would set this project back a long way.

Image

Image

Re: Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:06 pm
by blksabbath74
Looks beautiful...good to know!

Re: Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:11 pm
by Nekonecro
I hope by smaller you don't mean less housing, we have a massive issue with quarter space in Myon as it is.
Eitherway if we could get a peddler, scroll and wand merchant I'd be happy.

Re: Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:58 pm
by Irongron
Nekonecro wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:11 pm I hope by smaller you don't mean less housing, we have a massive issue with quarter space in Myon as it is.
Eitherway if we could get a peddler, scroll and wand merchant I'd be happy.
The Elven District will have a wealth of such content, including temples, houses, beautiful tavern, and so much else, and it really IS Myon.

Re: Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:22 pm
by NauVaseline
Gg irongron

Re: Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:38 pm
by Borin Drakkmurl
.

Re: Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:27 am
by Mr_Rieper
Irongron wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:59 pm As some of you may recall last year I spent a number of months working on a new city, to be positioned on the previously unexplored north-eastern slopes of the Skull Crags.

This is a vast project, and while I wanted to have it completed I both underestimated the time it would take to have our first HAK package ready (very soon now I hope), and was then taken entirely off Arelith development due to a professional project for NWN with Ossian Studios (details should also be announced soon).

As you all probably noticed I've been very active on Arelith development as that project came to a close, and will be soon be working exclusively, once again, on the city. Even with my own full attention, and that of other developers I expect it may take a few months to be entirely ready.

I mention this here because part of the new city is the Elven Quarter. I've neve really felt Arelith catered for the 'city elf' and I think this addition well worthile.

The important part - This quarter of the city is governed by Myon, and has direct portal access for Elven citizens between the two. Myon itself will be reworked afterwards with one of the new tilesets, but will be SMALLER - and while still protected by the Mythal the bulk of Elven civilisation (and RP) on Arelith will not longer take place in exclusion.

Here are images from the Elven Quarter. I've done the bulk of the area work both for the city and surrounding landscape, which is the lion's share of the work, but there is still a long way to go. If players really want to help out I'll accept suggestions for Elven NPCs (along with their descriptions and suggestions for bits of dialog here in this chat. What I cannot do is rework the areas themselves, as that would set this project back a long way.

Image

Image
While it's a good sentiment to want to include the elves of Arelith in other areas without destabilising the Mythal or Myon, this raises several big OOC concerns. Adding an elven district to Guldorand is one thing, having it be under Myon's sovereignty and control is another thing entirely. I can see this causing massive issues down the line, RP-wise. What if the Guldorand elven district wants to disassociate itself from Myon? What if Guldorand does not want the elves there?

There was very little RP precedent set for this, if none at all. Only after it was announced did people clumsily try to RP it making sense. And even then they were unable to reconcile it.

I'm all for showing a bit of progress from both the humans of Guldorand and the elves of Myon, but shoving them both into a single area that by all rights is completely under Guldorand's sovereignty is going to cause some friction. Guldorand is not Myon's vassal. In fact, Guldorand always seemed to loathe Myon's aloof and interfering nature. Guldorand also has always had a far stronger relationship with dwarves historically, not elves.

If the intention is to try to get the elves into the RP, turning Guldorand into Andunor with its own "drow" district is not going to help. And it will almost definitely not help to put that district under the direct control of Myon.

Re: Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:32 am
by The Greater Good
working on a new city
It isn't Guldorand.

Re: Rebranding Myon; the Venice of Arelith

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:49 am
by Irongron
I can't go into details of the surrounding narrative, or why there is an Elven quarter in the city, but there is a very good reason.

But this is just one corner of a city, which itself is going to be a nation.

The existing Logging Camp is not being replaced, and will indeed remain, as a logging camp at the southern end of the Guldorand. If players want to continue that RP without being dragged into city politics that option will be there. This 'nation' will contain a number of other places the elected leaders of the city don't have control over, including Soulhaven, and some scattered farms, and the largely lawless areas that can exist in any city.

I'm well aware of how the situation has evolved between the two settlements, and its fine if that hostility continues, it may even add to the atmosphere. But players are not NPCs. Elves from across Faerun will be migrating there, but Myon too, is not being removed so much can change in terms of governance.

I would just advise waiting for the actual city, which is still a long way off, and reacting IC to developments in game, not here on the forum.