Arelith

I have to say I was shocked to receive this message in my combat log after our party of 2 merged with a nearby small party as well.



Does this message imply that it's against certain rules to have more than 4 members in a party? Or how are we supposed to interpret this?

Has to do with the xp per kill only. A large party gets less xp per kill.

I disagree with it as XPing is fairly trivial for a solid build and unless you have a reason for hostile RP it discourages you from RPing with those you encounter on the road.

Maybe I'm a terrible RPer but I've certainly thought: "Oh a group is already here, guess I'll silently leave and go elsewhere to grind in silence." I doubt I'm the only one.

That or an Everquest-esk level of: "Frenzy camp taken, exe/cav should be open".

I actually don't know if you can get around it in the trivial manner of just having 2 groups as long as no one needs it as a writ. So it might not even stop people doing some long grind loop at 90 mph with 0 threat.

MissEvelyn wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:54 am I have to say I was shocked to receive this message in my combat log after our party of 2 merged with a nearby small party as well.



Does this message imply that it's against certain rules to have more than 4 members in a party? Or how are we supposed to interpret this?

It's poorly worded and misleading.

Your XP gains will increase as your party size increases, up to a maximum of 4 members. Once you pass 4 members, your XP gains will begin to decrease at a much steeper rate.

There is no rule against having parties larger than 4 members, although that party size is supposedly the optimal maximum for lag reduction. Having a small party also allows you to more easily move together, reducing cross area parties, which are another lag source.

I would prefer to see the wording clarified so that it sounds less accusatory.

MissEvelyn wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:54 am I have to say I was shocked to receive this message in my combat log after our party of 2 merged with a nearby small party as well.



Does this message imply that it's against certain rules to have more than 4 members in a party? Or how are we supposed to interpret this?

I think this message could be outright removed, it's mostly an annoying party spam.

Increased party sizes leads to more lag. Which is why an advisory message was made at the optimal level to net EXP for group sizing.

If anything, make it more prominent! So many people in Skal don't understand optimal exp for party size... so many nine person/summon parties...

Spyre wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:54 am Increased party sizes leads to more lag. Which is why an advisory message was made at the optimal level to net EXP for group sizing.

I'm quite doubtful as to the impact this message has on players, to be honest. Which's why I think it could be removed.

All that message looks to accomplish is people wanting xp so badly that they turn away people and leave them out because just one more will tank xp for the entire group. So many already have such a hard time finding parties, this just seems yet another discouragement.

I know everyone wants xp but it is listed as an rp server. To discourage grouping up seems wrong. Why not say it is to help with lag so keep visible wards to a minimum, if you don't need them don't use them. Or say once you hit X many people don't bring summons unless you need them? Anything that doesn't discourage partying up with that lone fifth or sixth member who is left standing about town.

Video "lag" and server "lag" are probably two different things. I would assume the server doesn't care if your PC looks like a neon sign (barring certain aura effects like Dirge perhaps), just the users.

I didn't realize the party size noticeably affected the performance of the server, can certainly see the merits of limiting party size on that then.

If server lag is an issue due to larger parties, then that is not an Arelith issue, but a Beamdog issue with the limitations of the game.

Is Beamdog aware of this problem?

Spyre wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:54 am Increased party sizes leads to more lag. Which is why an advisory message was made at the optimal level to net EXP for group sizing.

Cool. I see the lag as a good reason for an advisory. It doesn’t necessarily say not to group up if you find another party at a writ, but is good incentive to hurry things along.

I think the problem is that the advisory message doesn’t say any of these above things Spyre mentioned. It’s too open ended and leads to the questions that started this thread. Maybe something along the lines of, “Groups of larger than 4 players can negatively affect server performance. Please try to limit your parties to 4 people, and limit the amount of time spent in parties greater than 4.”

Yeah, it’s a little more text, but it’s also more prominent (I was in that group last night and never saw the message pictured), and it gives players context instead of questions.

I didn't write the message; however, will pass along the feedback if they are unaware.

MissEvelyn wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:29 pm If server lag is an issue due to larger parties, then that is not an Arelith issue, but a Beamdog issue with the limitations of the game.

Is Beamdog aware of this problem?

I remember "large parties cause lag" being something bandied about mid-last decade. But back then everything caused lag and even on its best day the server would be considered unplayable by today's standards. It was run on hardware that was considerably inferior to now.

So I don't know if Beamdog is aware, or if this even is a problem. I am reasonably sure they are working on converting the game from 32 to 64 bit so it will run on iOS, consoles and the Mac OS update on the way that will drop 32 bit application support entirely. Presumably if large parties actually do cause lag (which I am not convinced is an issue in 2019) that would hopefully solve this and many other lag issues related to game limitations.

Spyre wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:37 pm ... will pass along the feedback if they are unaware.

Thanks, Spyre!

I definitely second this wording seeming very off putting.

To me it comes across as a request from the server to play optimally, more than a 'large parties can cause lag' kind of thing.

I share the same concern as Bibliophile, in regards to that message quite possibly leading to people being turned away from groups just because someone wants that extra 5-10% XP.
I also worry a new player would see it and assume it's a rule rather than a suggestion, and worry they might be doing something wrong if they don't reduce the party size.

If it were me I'd probably say something more along the lines of 'Large parties can contribute to lag, please keep such in mind when forming groups', or something like that.

Either way, You did say it was already passed on but I figured I'd toss in my opinion as well.

ive never seen this message until now in this thread

Summons do not count as a full person, for the record, iirc.

Honestly, from my perspective, it's not just that larger parties cause lag, or that XP drops off in groups larger than four...

Large groups are incredibly annoying - With everyone tripping over one another's feet, random hold-ups, some people skipping merrily off into the distance, people not listening when the words "please don summo-... Oh well." are spoken.

It becomes impossible to keep track of the chat, and the game becomes less enjoyable. Large parties are awful.

What I dislike (along with the "not able to advance with a Writ") is that it's way too spammy.

I think people with a certain RPR should be able to toggle these messages on and off. Yeah, I get it. A party of 6 isn't as "optimized" as a party of 4. But who gives a flying crap about collecting-experiences-points-optimization?

If it's about lag, I think there are other measures that should be taken.

I understand informing people, but requesting with a please like its bad etiquette to bring ina fifth wheel vs rejecting someone fron doing their writ? It honestly seems silly to me.

The only point i respect of non large parties apparent lag it may create. Nobody wants that.