Arelith

not giving any blinding speed boost

checked multiple times just always runs at same level since 15th

Monk speed doesn't stack infinitely anymore.

Monk is now capped like all other classes.

then why was it given at all if its nothing

Because haste gives +1 extra attack per round (at full AB) and 4 dodge AC, with an instant action meaning you don't have to waste a couple of seconds using a haste wand.

Monk should have it's speed back as intended. There was no "good" reason to remove it and now it's buggy as all heck. Doing literally anything removes your "monk speed" now and you don't get it back unless you rest or log out, it's irritating and was unnecessary to remove to begin with.

The reason it was removed is because it was one of their main strengths.
Monk Speed was used to make up for the weaknesses they had but since those weaknesses have been remedied the speed on top of that would have been far too OP, that's why it was nerfed down to cap at 50% and not stack with other sources.
Also i've never had a problem with losing my monks speed and it's in epic levels now, you may want to try recreate what happened to yours and make a bug report.

Monk speed made monks literally unkillable. Whatever you did they always had the leisure of engaging/disengaging at will. Pop around a corner and eat some consumables out of combat, pop back in for a free flurry on a flatfooted opponent, run in circles as you spam a gonne etc.

And guess what, monks are still unkillable, LOL.

the grim yeeter wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:56 pm And guess what, monks are still unkillable, LOL.

they are far from unkillable. why dont you roll one up and actually play it instead of going by what you think it is on paper or in the pgcc

Absolutely killable, I have a monk alt (not max level yet, but is in epics) and I can promise you they are absolutely killable.
I also tested it out in the PGCC before playing it, best gear (all fully runic) potions popped for max stats, everything as optimal as it could be and it performed about as well (in some places not as well) as any other cookie cutter build/class out there.

Orian_666 wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:31 pm Absolutely killable, I have a monk alt (not max level yet, but is in epics) and I can promise you they are absolutely killable.
I also tested it out in the PGCC before playing it, best gear (all fully runic) potions popped for max stats, everything as optimal as it could be and it performed about as well (in some places not as well) as any other cookie cutter build/class out there.

one thing they do not understand, is a single point magic essence cuts monks dr, 1 point of damage is all it takes, to kill the 20 soak from level 20

so that means anything with a normal weapon that has an enhancement of anykind cuts like a hot knife through butter.

so that is any archer using iron tips that avoid the deflect, any devil or demon standard damage ( ie any epic content) just for starters.

and yes even with a resistance on gear, they are just as killable as anyone else, and even moreso since they cannot wear armor or use shields like everything else can

You keep repeating the point about DR when no one else is. The DR is just a cookie against low-lvl PvE enemies. Could it stand to be upgraded? Absolutely. Does that make the rest of the class not OP because it has one bad feature among dozens of good ones? No.

Orian_666 wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:31 pm Absolutely killable, I have a monk alt (not max level yet, but is in epics) and I can promise you they are absolutely killable.
I also tested it out in the PGCC before playing it, best gear (all fully runic) potions popped for max stats, everything as optimal as it could be and it performed about as well (in some places not as well) as any other cookie cutter build/class out there.

Would you like to share this build with the class? If the only counterargument is "Well I made one and it's not OP so there!" it's not going to be very effective. For all we know you built some weird full INT monk build.

Standard dual wielding Dex based pure monk. No SR epic feats, all standard/expected other epic feats though.
Cba going into specifics but if you were to build an optimal dual wielding dex pure monk then it's likely about the same as what i'm playing. Human too.

Orian_666 wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:12 pm Cba going into specifics

:/

Ebonstar wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:07 pm

Orian_666 wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:31 pm Absolutely killable, I have a monk alt (not max level yet, but is in epics) and I can promise you they are absolutely killable.
I also tested it out in the PGCC before playing it, best gear (all fully runic) potions popped for max stats, everything as optimal as it could be and it performed about as well (in some places not as well) as any other cookie cutter build/class out there.

one thing they do not understand, is a single point magic essence cuts monks dr, 1 point of damage is all it takes, to kill the 20 soak from level 20

so that means anything with a normal weapon that has an enhancement of anykind cuts like a hot knife through butter.

so that is any archer using iron tips that avoid the deflect, any devil or demon standard damage ( ie any epic content) just for starters.

and yes even with a resistance on gear, they are just as killable as anyone else, and even moreso since they cannot wear armor or use shields like everything else can

I'm with Nitro on the DR thing, it's entirely a cookie for fighting low level trash goblins.

But like the AC is good at 30, but only a little better than a standard sword and board build (which will have slightly better AB anyway and benefits more from TS pots). You don't actually need TS to hit a monk. Most first attacks will hit like 50% of the time (pending E-dodge I guess lol). And if you pop IE on the monk then you're not going to hit others that are packing mid 50's AC which is fairly standard, especially if they're using IE also, then you're both just fishing for 20's or wasting TS pots (Which benefit others more than the monk making it easier for them to hit you)

Then you have classes like two hander Barbs and Paladins that are pumping nearly 60AB but have nearly twice the HP and do more damage per hit anyway, they shred through monks, or the monk will IE and run for their lives.

Honestly like I said in the other thread I am 100% confident if a bunch of people got together and made like 5 or 6 of the best cookie cutter builds currently available (including pure monk) and held some sort of tournament pitching them against each other the monk would absolutely be par for the course, yet everyone is acting like the monk is going to win 100% of the time.
As far as I can see a bunch of powerbuilders have a new class to compete against that can stand on equal footing with them and they're not happy about that.

Nitro wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:14 pm

Orian_666 wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:12 pm Cba going into specifics

:/

Use your head dude, it's a run of the mill dex based dual wielding pure monk, it's not rocket surgery to figure it out. If you attempted to replicate it I'm sure it'd be basically the exact same as I built it, just don't take like scribe scroll or some shit and you're good

Considering equal skill a monk will win the majority of the time.

If you're not taking ISR, you're not optimal by a long way. (What /are/ you taking?)

I wish I could build a 60AB 2hander.

Orian_666 wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:19 pm

Nitro wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:14 pm

Orian_666 wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:12 pm Cba going into specifics

:/

Use your head dude, it's a run of the mill dex based dual wielding pure monk, it's not rocket surgery to figure it out.

B&R

Please post the secret to building a character with 60 AB, this is hidden and arcane knowledge I have not been privy to but am very interested in.

I'm going to link to the Grim Yeeters post on this because he's done a great deal of math and shows every step of the way why those numbers are a bit cray cray.
viewtopic.php?p=195836#p195836

Christ can none of you read, I very clearly said nearly. In the other thread theres a pala build with 57, feel free to look there!!

(I'm also very powerful and am full buffed constantly and application time / duration is not a factor.)

But, given that, could you show how 57 AB hits 73 AC at a 50% rate? The answer may surprise me. (We'll leave out ED because that's a slightly more complex calculation)

Could you also show that the paladin wins this matchup? That answer may surprise me more.

(That barbarian you mentioned sounds interesting, is that 57 AB?)

Could you show that outside this very specific scenario the monk is also vulnerable?

Orian_666 wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:19 pm
Use your head dude, it's a run of the mill dex based dual wielding pure monk, it's not rocket surgery to figure it out. If you attempted to replicate it I'm sure it'd be basically the exact same as I built it, just don't take like scribe scroll or some shit and you're good

Orian_666 wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:27 pm Christ can none of you read, I very clearly said nearly. In the other thread theres a pala build with 57, feel free to look there!!

You can insist up and down that you've seen these numbers and they're totally achievable and reasonable all you want, but if you're not gonna provide any backup for it you're on about the same ground as me claiming I've got a date with Emma Watson tonight (But no you can't see any pictures of us together).

Some back of envelope AB calculations on a 2h paladin: 25 base AB, 14 strength modifier, +5 weapon, +2 twohand bonus +3 epic weapon focus, +5 divine favor +1 epic prowess +1 aid +1 prayer for 57 if the monk stands there and lets you fluff yourself with buffs for two rounds while he does nothing, and 57 somehow hits 73 AC (With Epic Dodge) more than 25% of the time. 57 is also not 60, but I'm sure you were just rounding and not telling us.

Would love to see how you get a barbarian to 60 AB (Or a number you can round to 60 ab). 25 base, 14 strength modifier, +5 weapon, +2 twohand bonus +3 epic weapon focus +1 epic prowess +1 aid potion +2 barb rage is only 53.

One final time, I quite literally said "NEARLY", so yes Hunter I was rounding, and I did tell you all, twice in fact.