Arelith

Lets talk about this...

Th highlighted text reinforces the false idea that skaljard is the starting place, despite it being mechanically more "challenging", and it structurally doing nothing to introduce newer players to the mechanics of the game we play, isolating newer players so they develop a a culture and set of practices which is not reflective of the way the game is played at large, thus providing an objectively poor introduction to the server.

This is problematic.


Additionally, saying Cordor is an ideal starting place for experienced roleplayers, does not reflect the fact that anyone can effectively and reliably start playing in Cordor. This means that there is now not the flow of newer players and lower levels through Cordor that traditionally kept the place dynamic and interesting, and easy to find level appropriate groups... Meaning those few who DO try to start there, are caught by a lack of people with whom they can group, and therefore struggle to level. This reinforces the idea that Skal is the starting location, by actively suppressing Cordor as being an option... It becomes a self-fulfilling piece of text.

You tell people it is only good for experienced players, so nobody goes there, which in turn makes levelling harder, and therefore "making an impact" becomes harder (or so it could be perceived by players struggling to find levels), so nobody bothers - and only experienced players cope well with it. By saying it, you make it true.

Solution: Remove all starting location recommendations from Arelith entry text, and simply give a description. There is no need to say what sort of player these places are suitable for.

Further problems: The damage has already been done, and these attitudes and options of places are already ingrained, and we're probably stuck with those attitudes being prevalent for the next couple of years.


Edit: proposed new entry door text:

Skaljard is a bitterly cold island where a beleaguered town is assailed by both monsters and the elements. Travel to and from Skaljard is challenging, and nearly impossible during the winter months as the surrounding seas freeze solid. This isolated place has no stable political system, and holds itself together only on the laws of survival.

Cordor is a sophicated, sprawling, walled metropolis. The largest city on the largest island of the archipelago, Cordor is a sizable centre of trade and culture, with an advanced political system. King Edward Cordor ostensibly rules the city state, but delegates day to day management and politics to an elected chancellor.

Started on Skal aswel when i joined the server and boy did i feel tricked after spending a day on the 'main' land.

Skal is harder and harsher and i never seen any thing that helped me understand things better besides the kind tells of my fellow players.

Suggested this way back in the skal feedback threadnaught.

I also feel given the differing rp cultures between skal and the mainland it's actively harmful. I've seen lots of characters leave skal come to the mainland and become unplayable in less than a week because they faceplanted into a wall by summoning mummies or demons or otherwise.

If someone who wants politics and intrigue shows up in skal as a new player we more than likely lose them. If someone who wants rp-lite action joins skal we may well lose them when they hit the soft level cap in skal with no more writs and head to the mainland. Likewise if that player starts in cordor they are likely to be frustrated and not sick around.

Better signposting would be great

The atmosphere in Skal is actively harmful to the server as a whole, in the long run. It shouldn't be recommended to fresh players, because it is so disconnected from the rest of Arelith that it barely feels like the same server. Players pick up awful habits there and form false expectations. Established characters have no reason to hang around in Skal and coach the newbies, so the problem keeps making itself worse.

If anything, Skal is the starting location that should be recommended to experienced players, not Cordor.

Indeed these descriptions should be changed asap.

Out of curiosity, not having played in Skal, what is the problem with the culture and habits fostered there?

Eeeeey, Make Skal a place for powerbuilders. Super challenge!

But yes, You get so much more guidiance and things are so much easier on surface.

Hi guys,

Thanks for raising the issue. After having a discussion about this, Irongron decided that we remove the "recommended for players new to nwn" bit.

I am implementing this change shortly.

That's excellent. I don't think I've ever seen a feedback thread go like this before, so I'm feeling a little tiny bit surprised.

Gobbo Champion Inc wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:12 am Out of curiosity, not having played in Skal, what is the problem with the culture and habits fostered there?

To give you an example particularly indicative to me: One of my characters and her drow associate went to Skal to tour the new Underdark content. We ended up spending a long time in conversation before we ever started, specifically, directly within the main door to the Tin Mines, because it was the sort of conversation you're always expecting to end right after the next answer. Five people passed us by. We were not warded heavily, the drow was not wearing a helmet, and the characters descriptions starts "This drow..."

The fifth person noticed only after 15 minutes of friendly conversation. The other four just asked for directions to the coal and moved on.

It's hardly the only example. I've heard people asking about game mechanics in Talk, I've heard people say "lol," literally no one int he entire crowd in the town center, on two separate occasions hours apart, could tell me where the person who pays the head bounties was. They all said Skaljard didn't have one. It does. I found it that day.

Skal i think should be more a high level survival based place. Its rough, its bleak, its remote, and its utterly unforgiving. Instead of a place for people to start out i would say it would serve better as a place for the strongest to test themselves in an environment conducive to those who enjoy extreme difficulty and survival rp. Remaking the mobs into epic level versions and increasing the already greatly generous loot and resources that can be gained there would give even people who don't like survival rp and extreme difficulty a reason to visit and perhaps a challenge to surpass which they could then boast about.

Starting in Skal as a new player is one of the worst things you could do to yourself.

Think it was made to get all the new folks in 1 spot so they cant vote in Cordor!

I largely question Skal's existence (in it's current form) if Arelith is about a roleplaying environment, rewards are trapped behind 20 RPR, and yet that island is meant to be casual (almost too casual) onboarding experience where roleplay isn't as emphasized as much as adventuring.

I got off Skal as quick as I could. It feels like a place to gain mechanical power without any narrative significance.

Vrass wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:51 am Skal i think should be more a high level survival based place. Its rough, its bleak, its remote, and its utterly unforgiving. Instead of a place for people to start out i would say it would serve better as a place for the strongest to test themselves in an environment conducive to those who enjoy extreme difficulty and survival rp. Remaking the mobs into epic level versions and increasing the already greatly generous loot and resources that can be gained there would give even people who don't like survival rp and extreme difficulty a reason to visit and perhaps a challenge to surpass which they could then boast about.

Playing on Skal brings back fuzzy memories of playing a simple game of pen and paper D&D when I was younger. No political offices or settlement system, no factions calling all the shots, just a little outpost town surrounded by dungeons. I think the thing that strikes me most about how different it is is that you actually have mixed adventuring parties-- people don't just stick to those of their race/faction and occasional allies which is how Arelith main tends to roll. There's something to be said for a paladin and necromancer being in the same party and arguing the whole time, that's how I remember tabletop D&D being because obviously you're stuck with whatever the 6 people playing want to play even if they conflict. This would never fly on normal Arelith though and for good reason.

I love how complex Arelith is and wouldn't lose any of that but the alternative of something simpler and more in the spirit of classic D&D is nice too. If you ask me, Skal could be a completely separate and unattached level 1-30 server that uses Arelith's trappings and mechanics but isn't connected to C&P/Surface at all.

From what I recall, Skal was primarily for the release of EE.

It served as a place that caught the flood of new players, allowed them to get a rough idea of what the server is like, to see the map making capabilities of the team, and to help block trollers from causing havoc all over the main land; it did pretty good at all of this from what I've heard as well.

It has kind of served that purpose by this point though, I do think Skal is a really interesting idea and I've had a lot of fun having my characters pay a visit there(so I don't think it should be removed), but not being recommended for new players I think is likely for the best.

Can we add a zombie survival isle? ;3

Should be doable actually, just create a large creepy island, add a relatively safe village to serve as a base, maybe add a necromancer city for the evil folks, then populate it with every zombie variant known to D&D. I would love to see something like that.