Arelith

Description of Bug Experienced:

According to the Arelith Wiki, Shadow Mages get +1 caster level per shadowdancer level. However, this level is not being used to resist dispels. Consequently, a 20 wizard/10 shadowdancer is completely dispellable as if they only had 20 caster levels.

Steps to reproduce the Bug:
Create a 20 wizard/10 shadowdancer on the PGCC with greater or epic abjuration focus, cast any number of buffs, then dispel yourself with greater dispel.

1d20 + dispel's caster level(max 26) vs. 12 + creator's effective level (in the screenshot, I also took arcane defense abjuration, which should have added an additional +2, or 14 + 30 = 44).

Expected Result:

20% or less of buffs will be removed by the initial cast.

Actual Result:

90-100% of buffs are removed by a single cast of greater dispel.

Screenshot(s)

Suggested bugfix: If a shadow mage levels up shadowdancer, forcibly de level them and tell them it's a trap and the classes shouldn't be taken together.

I agree that this "synergy" should be removed. It was always intended to be phased out.

Grandfather it, offer rebuilds, whatever--but remove it now. It serves only as a tax on uninformed (i.e. usually new) players. Knowledge should not be a barrier to entry on Arelith.

From the Arelith shadowdancer wiki: The Shadowdancer gains a d6 of improved sneak attack (feat) per three levels of the Shadow when standing near it.

From the Arelith shadow mage wiki: Instead of gaining Sneak Attack from their shadow, Shadow Mages get +1 caster level per Shadowdancer level.

Thus one could assume that the shadow mage CL bonus only applies when standing next to your shadow. Have you tried this?

Szaren wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:42 am From the Arelith shadowdancer wiki: The Shadowdancer gains a d6 of improved sneak attack (feat) per three levels of the Shadow when standing near it.

From the Arelith shadow mage wiki: Instead of gaining Sneak Attack from their shadow, Shadow Mages get +1 caster level per Shadowdancer level.

Thus one could assume that the shadow mage CL bonus only applies when standing next to your shadow. Have you tried this?

The +CL is static and applies even if the shadow's not been summoned. I'm pretty sure it doesn't count towards piercing SR either, though, in addition to the reported failure to resist dispels.

Like has been said so many times, the shadowdancer synergy is a massive trap (even if the dispel and SR issues were fixed). It's made out to be an awesomely clever trick but is in fact just a straight downgrade.

Fair enough.

I concur with the previous statements about not playing that then.

Well three levels of it would make a relatively painless dip for a 27/3 Wiz, decent skills, only costs you 8 CC ranks. You're not really a shadowdancer at all but it gets you your tumble dump.

No discipline though, which makes it straight worse* than a bard or ranger dump. There is no reason ever go to Shadowdancer on a shadow mage. In fact, HiPS was given to the class at 20 because Shadowdancer synergy was intended to be phased out.

(* No, the extra three CL aren't "worth it" in this case.)

I agree that playing a wizard or sorcerer without evocation is very difficult, and would not have chosen this class if I had known the road ahead.

However, if this bug, the spell resist bug, and/or the approved suggestion by Irongron was fixed and implemented viewtopic.php?f=51&t=24756 I think the class can and should still be played. Its presence is part of what makes Arelith unique and what originally drew me to the server in the first place.

I also think preserving its synergy with Shadowdancer is important, otherwise every player of Shadow Mage will be forced into only one role, as a dc focused pure caster with almost no damage spells.

This suggestion covers the idea with appropriate trade offs: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=25223

Apokriphos wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:41 pm II also think preserving its synergy with Shadowdancer is important, otherwise every player of Shadow Mage will be forced into only one role, as a dc focused pure caster with almost no damage spells.

That's the same role they play when they take the shadowdancer class to be fair.

I would prefer acces to the class stays regardless, and if it does, it should still work as it's supposed to. The CL not applying is a bug whether or not anyone feels the class should be removed.

Bumping this post as the bug remains unresolved.

+1