Arelith

Hello. I've come to realize that building a full mundane class can be mechanically boring on Arelith as there isn't much -extra- given to those classes unlike arcane classes. With the recent scroll requirement changes needing very high amounts of lore to use, playing a full mundane character is going to be very hard to use reliably in solo pvp.

To mediate this, and also give some more flavor to the mundane classes, I suggest adding epic level combat maneuvers through the Epic Weapon Focus and Epic Weapon Specialization feats much like the Epic Spell Focus feats have (ex; -scry -teleport etc..)

As for what these new epic combat maneuvers could be, I have a few idea's, though the main suggestion is as stated above. Every epic weapon Focus would have the same maneuver as the other, same with epic weapon specialization having its own, in total only effectively adding 2 actual epic combat maneuvers to the game.

If you would like to, you can post your idea's for Epic Combat Maneuvers below. Thanks for reading!

This isn't a bad suggestion, but its not really anything I can act on without something more concrete.

Moving to feedback section.

This just makes already must-have epic feats more mandatory and less optional. Most mundane cookie cutter builds already build around/squeeze these feats in.

And what kind maneuvers would these be that dont make knockdown/disarm obsolete? Feats that require seperate investment and have still be nerfed as well?

malcolm_mountainslayer wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:42 pm This just makes already must-have epic feats more mandatory and less optional. Most mundane cookie cutter builds already build around/squeeze these feats in.

And what kind maneuvers would these be that dont make knockdown/disarm obsolete? Feats that require seperate investment and have still be nerfed as well?

This criticism needs more work. Don't shoot down an idea before there really is an idea. Combat maneuvers would be a good balance to spellcasters receiving things for spell focuses.

Some thoughts

-retreat. Port to respawn point once a day

Heroics: self rez on real world timer or some limited clock before death

Hop a caravan: port to the next caravan destination as a guard

Maintenance: add 1 charge back to weapon n armor

Survey: reveal map plus item or enemy locations

1h slash: pommel strikes, toggle damage to blunt, -2 ab, 3rnd cooldown when toggle off

1h slash: hamstring, called shot now bypasses freedom of movement

1h slash: aiming to maim, wounding, give it monster on hit 5 which bypasses dr, toggle mode -10 ab, ab vs fort, multi hits can stack

1h blunt: precussive strikes, +1 apr rnds/str bonus, 10m cooldown

1h blunt: thick-headed, mind immunity rnds/con bonus, cannot dispel mundane, 10m cooldown reduced by 1/2 if hit by will save

2h: massive presence, +10 intimidation when wielding 2h

2h: shield breaker bash, -10 ab vs fort, -5 shield ac for 1 turn failed save, but no -10 ab vs epic mage armor, 3rnd cooldown

Polearm: formation, +1 dodge ac for yourself and nearby allies, 10m, stacks with other polearm weilders

Polearm/2h: death grip, toggle 10dmg/rnd but immunity to disarm, 3 round cooldown after toggle off, some effect to make it obvious it's on

Polearm: get over here, 5m pull someone to you, ab vs ac, cooldown 1 turn, 1/2 cooldown if it hits, instant action so at least the first flurry had a chance to hit before someone runs

Missile: moving target, negate the -ab when target running

Thrown: sleight of hand, 1apr rnds/dex bonus, 10m cooldown

Thrown/missile: minion mark, +10 magic dmg vs summons & henchmen

This is a very good idea. You could keep it in check with a point system:
Maneuver Points. For each EWF and EWS feat, you get +3 (or whatever is deemed balanced) Maneuver Points. These points are regained when resting.

Some more examples of Maneuver commands:

-aoos. Attack of Opportunity vs Spells: Next Attack of Opportunity made against a caster as a result of a spell being cast is guaranteed to interrupt the spell. If the caster is casting defensively, -aoos has a 25% chance of failing to interrupt the spell.

-retreat. Retreat: Get teleported to the last used transition. If last transition isn't available (teleport, portal, ship, yoink, etc.), then be teleported to the nearest transition instead. Similar to the retreat suggested above, but less powerful

-ts. Tactical Strike: Next attack is guaranteed to hit and weapon counts as Keen for the purpose of Critical Threat Range for that attack. Cooldown: 1 minute.

-harvest. Harvester: For the next 5 rounds, deal an extra 4d12 physical damage to objects. Cooldown: 1 minute.

-ws. Wounding Strike: Temporarily gain the Wounding property on weapon for 2 rounds. Cooldown: 1 minute.

-dirt. Throw dirt (or dust or sand): User kicks up dirt around them, causing enemies within melee range to make a Fortitude save or become blinded for X rounds. Save DC is based on AB. Could use the whirlwind animation. Cooldown: 1 minute.

-rearm. Rearm: Nearest disarmed party member who is disarmed is 'cured' from the disarm effect. Cooldown: 5 minutes.

-getup. Get Up: Nearest knocked down party member gets up immediately. Cooldown: 10 minutes.


These are just a few examples on how this could look like.

Ork wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:34 pm

malcolm_mountainslayer wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:42 pm This just makes already must-have epic feats more mandatory and less optional. Most mundane cookie cutter builds already build around/squeeze these feats in.

And what kind maneuvers would these be that dont make knockdown/disarm obsolete? Feats that require seperate investment and have still be nerfed as well?

This criticism needs more work. Don't shoot down an idea before there really is an idea. Combat maneuvers would be a good balance to spellcasters receiving things for spell focuses.

Im all for combat maneuvers, knockdown improved disarm etc are all maneuvers and id move how nwn 2 handles it versus discipline but that be breaking a cart already established. I like idea of maneuvers but not tying them to these feats.

Also we need more concrete on what maneuvers are.

*edit*

There was less concrete at time i originally criticised. Im fine with everyone having more maneuvers, i think tying their success to already popular feats is a uninteresting decision.

MissEvelyn wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:57 pm Some more examples of Maneuver commands:

-aoos. Attack of Opportunity vs Spells: Next Attack of Opportunity made against a caster as a result of a spell being cast is guaranteed to interrupt the spell. If the caster is casting defensively, -aoos has a 25% chance of failing to interrupt the spell.

-retreat. Retreat: Get teleported to the last used transition. If last transition isn't available (teleport, portal, ship, yoink, etc.), then be teleported to the nearest transition instead. Similar to the retreat suggested above, but less powerful

-ts. Tactical Strike: Next attack is guaranteed to hit and weapon counts as Keen for the purpose of Critical Threat Range for that attack. Cooldown: 1 minute.

-harvest. Harvester: For the next 5 rounds, deal an extra 4d12 physical damage to objects. Cooldown: 1 minute.

-ws. Wounding Strike: Temporarily gain the Wounding property on weapon for 2 rounds. Cooldown: 1 minute.

-dirt. Throw dirt (or dust or sand): User kicks up dirt around them, causing enemies within melee range to make a Fortitude save or become blinded for X rounds. Save DC is based on AB. Could use the whirlwind animation. Cooldown: 1 minute.

-rearm. Rearm: Nearest disarmed party member who is disarmed is 'cured' from the disarm effect. Cooldown: 5 minutes.

-getup. Get Up: Nearest knocked down party member gets up immediately. Cooldown: 10 minutes.

I would be in favour of adding something along these lines to the server. I can definitely see people finding the mundane role lacking.

A few thoughts though. This idea of mundane teleportation seems strange to me. Being able to teleport around is a magical phenomena and I think we should keep it that way for the sake of immersion. I've never been a fan of the idea of 'quick travel' in other games, which I feel this maneuver mirrors.

Also, I suppose these maneuvers are intended for mundanes only? Unless I am wrong in my assumption, how do we limit it for their sole use?

Kaeldre wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:04 am A few thoughts though. This idea of mundane teleportation seems strange to me. Being able to teleport around is a magical phenomena and I think we should keep it that way for the sake of immersion. I've never been a fan of the idea of 'quick travel' in other games, which I feel this maneuver mirrors.

Mechanically speaking it would be a teleport as in the character getting moved from one point to another. But in-game it would be perceived as running off swiftly. *retreats to safety* could even be something the character who uses -retreat emotes before vanishing. Since the distance they are retreating to isn't significantly huge, it's not really much of a teleport. And in a world where we have extremely fast halfling messengers who can drop in anywhere at the speed of light, it wouldn't be that immersive breaking at all.

However these are done, they should be implemented to only work if you don't have any spells, divine might, or divine shield.

I think it would be interesting to gate these behind an epic fighter requirement (Level 21 fighter). At the moment, the fighter class is primarily used as a dipping class for bonus feats and weapon specializations. While this role is more than acceptable, there is merit in expanding their options. This might be a good way to do just that.

In my mind, barbarians have always eclipsed fighters in overall combat ability and flexibility. Even with the custom changes Arelith have implemented. They simply have more tools to play with. Offering epic fighters access to epic maneuvers would reclaim the latter and make the player experience more engaging.

In short, gating maneuvers to fighters above level 21 has the potential to balance the disparity between epic fighters and barbarians. This also makes sure caster classes are kept at bay. Thoughts?

I wouldn't gate it behind level 21, because then you're stuck without being able to use what would become a core ability of the class until late in your character's life.

Instead, treat it similarly to ranger's animal henchman, where you only gain the abilities if more than 3/4 of your levels are fighter.

Could take a leaf from 4th edition and simply allow martial prepared abilities.
Unlock fighter spell slots and then create some "spells" for maneuvres. It'd be work, but I think so would be adding the maneuvres another way, it could be gated by slot level also so you don't have nothing interesting until epic. Would leave hybrid casters in an odd spot perhaps.

monkeywithstick wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:57 pm Could take a leaf from 4th edition and simply allow martial prepared abilities.
Unlock fighter spell slots and then create some "spells" for maneuvres. It'd be work, but I think so would be adding the maneuvres another way, it could be gated by slot level also so you don't have nothing interesting until epic. Would leave hybrid casters in an odd spot perhaps.

New spellbooks cannot currently be added to the game, so this would have to be done via feats or -commands. This is also why warlock hasn't been moved off of bard, although Irongron said he will if Beamdog adds the feature to create new spellbooks for classes.