Page 1 of 1

The assassin guildhouse

Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:33 am
by Dr. B
I want to start off by saying that I really appreciate the new update, and the fact that the guild is now seeing new activity. It was virtually dead for a very long time (indeed, not until this update had I encountered any other PCs inside the guildhouse).

I would love for it to stay this way, and I am hoping the new activity is not temporary. In that spirit I'm pointing out a few ways in which the guild could be made more enjoyable, as well as some fixes to some potential problems that could compromise enjoyability:

First, it would be lovely if the guild had its own bank and temple shop, as many other guildhouses do. One benefit is that this concentrates more players into the area, promoting more interaction. It also prevents people from having to conspicuously enter and re-enter the guild to take care of basic business like banking, etc.

That brings me to another, more important concern: there is only one guild entrance, and everyone knows where it is. This seems to me like it could create issues (and, from a purely IC perspective, is a bad idea). When a popular target is assassinated, their friends can easily blockade the entrance and harass people going in and out of the guild, popping True Seeing spells when they see the main doors open. Add to that the fact that some of these slain people might have been running for elected office with their factions supporting them, and that is a recipe for a lot of embittered blockade-play, some of it no doubt fueled by OOC frustration.

Epic spotters can also lurk outside the entrance, breaking people's disguises and exposing their identities (remember that not everyone who plays an assassin is of a high enough level to have maxed out bluff), thereby making their characters largely unplayable. This problem, too, is likely to be aggravated if people feel or their friends feel aggrieved by an assassination.

Perhaps there could be a locked side entrance that connects to another area, like there is in the Temple of Mask? Or (one can dream) a two way portal on the inside? The latter would actually be ideal, because a second entrance is still susceptible to the same problem.

In sum: the addition of the contractor is great, but the guildhouse feels very exposed. Perhaps more of the basic necessities of living could be contained within the guild, so that there needs to be less coming and going by guild-members, and perhaps there could be a way for guild members to access it without it being so noticeable?

Let me reiterate that I think the update is great, and I am very grateful to Artinedes and other talented developers who have worked so hard to make the game enjoyable. I take it that the spirit was to revitalize the guild, and my post here is made with that end in mind.

Re: The assassin guildhouse

Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:32 am
by Diegovog
When you assassinate a target you get part of the gold on the spot and part on your bank. You have no need to go to the guild house. In fact, you shouldn't. If you murder a high profile target you should -really- play smart and lay low.

Part of the thrill of playing an assassin is the constant paranoia of being watched or people breaking your disguise. If you're afraid and being super careful when accessing the guild house then I say you're in the right direction.

Also, I don't think interaction has anything to do with the guild's activity. In fact, most of the assassins are competitors. Cooperation in most cases are much better with non-assassins. That way you can lie about the bounty, you can use arcanists with scry, a speaker to flush the prey and so on. Possibly one of the last things you want is an assassin who can double-cross you and won't cover your weaknesses.
In a way there is something very unique within this "faction". It's a group of murderers competing to get the bounty. They are scum, serial-killers, cold assassins, scammers, misleaders and honor-less backstabbers.

The biggest problem with the Assassin's Guild is that people can just pay off their bounties. And that's what happens with most high profile targets. They sit, unreachable until they have a group and they go fully buffed and undetectable to pay it off. If anyone here thinks it's possible to ambush, it's not. The best way to increase the usefulness and activity in the Guild imo is to make the marks pay 200% of the bounties to remove it. That way, those who paid the bounty in the first place don't feel like they just wasted their gold for nothing.

Re: The assassin guildhouse

Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:18 pm
by Dr. B
Diegovog wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:32 am When you assassinate a target you get part of the gold on the spot and part on your bank. You have no need to go to the guild house. In fact, you shouldn't. If you murder a high profile target you should -really- play smart and lay low.
Right, BUT-- people can still blockade the guildhouse and harass guildmembers who weren't involved in the assassination. Imagine a low-level guild-member who just logged on walking into the main entrance, totally unaware that a high profile assassination just occurred, only to immediately be met with a group of fully warded epics who are mad that their popular friend got killed. There's also my aforementioned concern about spotters camping outside the main entrance. Again, this is an issue that predominately stands to affect lower-level characters who likely haven't done any PC assassinations and probably won't for a very long time. I don't want those players being driven away.

Then there's the awkwardness of going in and out of there while groups of warded characters come in to pay off contracts.

I just don't see this playing out well. People get mad about PvP, and to me it just makes sense to have a less conspicuous way for guildmembers to get in there. And from an in-universe perspective, it seems totally bonkers to me that there's no alternative entry.

I would really urge the developers to consider the potential issue here. Yes, there should be potential risks and consequences for doing an assassination, and for joining the guild. I think it's sufficient that one can die during an assassination, and immediately have their identity revealed. But a one-way entrance into the guildhouse seems to funnel people into those consequences in a way that is difficult to avoid.
Also, I don't think interaction has anything to do with the guild's activity. In fact, most of the assassins are competitors. Cooperation in most cases are much better with non-assassins.
I am not sure I see the point of this update, then, if not to foster more interaction between guild members. Also, what you're saying here may express your character's outlook, but not everyone else's. Personally, I've enjoyed meeting other guildmembers, at last, and so have other people. Moreover, several assassin characters have expressed the view that cooperation is better than competition. As far as the setup of the guildhouse goes, I think things should be set up to encourage interaction because relationships between characters tend to generate roleplay; if your character prefers to be a loner, I respect your IC choices, and no one is forcing you to not play them that way.
Diegovog wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:32 am They are scum, serial-killers, cold assassins, scammers, misleaders and honor-less backstabbers.
This also expresses a preconceived notion of how assassins should be played that shouldn't be enforced by server design and is not the only way. Some assassins may be this way, but others might have a code of conduct (never betray a guildmember, never break a promise, never kill members of a certain race, gender, age), etc. This sounds like a quintessentially NE or CE assassin, but their may be other ways of playing an assassin that are equally valid and interesting.

Re: The assassin guildhouse

Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:33 am
by Sofawiel
Speaking only to the Guildhouse itself: I would love to see it re-thought, and at the very least re-skinned a la the fool's clover.

From an IC perspective this is supposed to be a guild with enough influence to literally force elections in every settlement. It rivals the Harpers in its perceived capabilities (by npcs at least or the mechanical election thingy wouldnt exist, imo). The sheer amount of gold tossed its way to buy off contracts alone warrants it being considerably more appointed and functional.

I would argue for getting rid of the multiple "main" lobbies and moving the "public" entrance to the shadovar tradepost where neutrality is enforced by the shadovar, with private entrances for members placed in locations similar to the current ones.

An update of the npcs would be ideal, as would storage space. Assassins, like rogues, often carry a lot of trinkets, storing them for an entire faction (if pc;s are working together) takes more than one chest.

Aesthetically I'd like something a little more opulent/professional, again to represent the sheer amount of gold dumped into the coffers. For swift implementation though maybe repurpose that old guild house that was in the cordor sewers years ago.

Re: The assassin guildhouse

Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:44 am
by Dr. B
Personally, I kind of like the stark warehouse aesthetic. But I agree that there should be more amenities (see my original post). The guild is possibly the richest organization on the isle, as Sofawiel observed; many player owned guildhouses have things like bankers. It makes sense that the assassins guild would be able to furnish some of these same features. As an added note, the imp in the guildhouse buys a lot of the junk that one finds on quests. Having a banker in the same area would be a major quality of life improvement, as it allows one to immediately stow the profits of their excursions.