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Feylock Shadow Shield
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:45 pm
by Morgy
Hello!
I am aware there is a hesitance to change much/anything with warlocks in general at the moment as there is the chance of them becoming a full class in the future of NWN:EE, however..
Could we look at removing the cooldown from shadow shield (level 28)? It's the only spell reward Feylocks get for not dipping (usually into blackguard which provides huge saves and AC boosts). Currently shadow shield can be removed by anyone with a wand of lesser breach and is the only spell feylocks get above 25. I think this would be a simple and fair change, which would still not bring the pure class build into the same power level as the BG dip.
Thanks.
Re: Feylock Shadow Shield
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:14 pm
by AstralUniverse
I havent played a feylock so maybe all of this is just half a picture but few things to point out...
Shadowshield is breachable but the amount of UMD users is lower than it used to be. Either way, if the cooldown is removed then you can just invest half a round casting it again, while the UMD user is investing a full round or even more if it's a scroll(?) to breach you. So you always come up more time efficient in the trade.
Secondly, Shadowshield gives a solid, reliable +5 natural modifier. It will go along with you when you're flat-footed and what not. Divine shield gives more ac, but temporary, and lost when flat-footed. I'd say, for a con-lock, shadowshield is a far better investment if the CD is removed, and you dont have any particular saves problem to begin with. if charisma based, debateable. With all things considered I'm not even sure BG dip is the optimal way to go, not to mention it's also unavailable to neutral feylocks.
So what the OP's suggesting is a serious buff, imo. But maybe it's a deserved one.. I'll leave that to feylock players to judge.
Re: Feylock Shadow Shield
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:41 pm
by Wuthering
I think Shadow Shield should be gained at a lower level if the cooldown is retained and they should have a much better capstone like Dominate Monster. Oh and give them Dominate Animal at a lower level too and--
Actually I have too many thoughts about Feylocks so I'll cut myself off before I go crazy here.
Re: Feylock Shadow Shield
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:22 pm
by Morgy
Edit: double post!
Re: Feylock Shadow Shield
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:23 pm
by Morgy
AstralUniverse wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:14 pm
I havent played a feylock so maybe all of this is just half a picture but few things to point out...
Shadowshield is breachable but the amount of UMD users is lower than it used to be. Either way, if the cooldown is removed then you can just invest half a round casting it again, while the UMD user is investing a full round or even more if it's a scroll(?) to breach you. So you always come up more time efficient in the trade.
Secondly, Shadowshield gives a solid, reliable +5 natural modifier. It will go along with you when you're flat-footed and what not. Divine shield gives more ac, but temporary, and lost when flat-footed. I'd say, for a con-lock, shadowshield is a far better investment if the CD is removed, and you dont have any particular saves problem to begin with. if charisma based, debateable. With all things considered I'm not even sure BG dip is the optimal way to go, not to mention it's also unavailable to neutral feylocks.
So what the OP's suggesting is a serious buff, imo. But maybe it's a deserved one.. I'll leave that to feylock players to judge.
BG is absolutely the way to go for being optimal. We are talking about 14-15ac boost (almost permanently if you want it as you have approx 15 casts each lasting 90 seconds) and +15 to all three saves.
Having shadow shield on a three minute cool down makes it all too easy to remove by any player and certain NPCs. It’s really not -that- special for natural AC seeing as you can get 4ac from barkskin wands.
Any feylock spamming shadow shield is going to half their already mediocre DPS.
If it is decided spammable shadowshield is too strong (which when you think about sorc capability, I don’t think it is), then something else should be added for Feylocks instead.
However we are at risk of turning this into an overall review of Feylocks, which is not the purpose of the thread as irongron has already stated they will not get drastic changes at this point.
Re: Feylock Shadow Shield
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:24 pm
by AstralUniverse
What you're suggesting is a pretty drastic change. As I said in my post above.
Re: Feylock Shadow Shield
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:26 pm
by Morgy
AstralUniverse wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:24 pm
What you're suggesting is a pretty drastic change. As I said in my post above.
I don’t think asking to review the cool down of one spell is a drastic change.. (having played two feylocks)
Re: Feylock Shadow Shield
Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:32 pm
by Zavandar
bskin wand provides just 1 less ac and isn't on the breach list, and if the feylock has lore and REALLY wants that 1 ac, they can scroll shadow shield. feylock gets WAY more out of a bg dip than going pure
i also don't think feylocks are that good to begin with. removing the cd outright shouldn't be a big deal unless there's something i'm missing
Re: Feylock Shadow Shield
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:45 pm
by Heroic Spirit
Unless this has changed since I've had a max level feylock, shadow-shield did not have a cooldown. On the wiki, it should have 3 asterisks rather than 4, denoting that it is implemented as a spell-like abilities on the radial menu.
Re: Feylock Shadow Shield
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:52 am
by Morgy
Heroic Spirit wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:45 pm
Unless this has changed since I've had a max level feylock, shadow-shield did not have a cooldown. On the wiki, it should have 3 asterisks rather than 4, denoting that it is implemented as a spell-like abilities on the radial menu.
Thank you for this! I was debating going pure feylock and this was one of the things putting me off. If this is true then consider the issue solved
