Arelith

Wall of Fire currently has double the damage against undead, whereas its close cousin, Wall of Ice, doesn't have anything except for the frost damage instead of fire damage.

While the frost damage is nice against foes on RDI, Wall of Fire generally outperforms Wall of Ice everywhere else due to the increased damage versus undead.

A way to give Wall of Ice something special without increasing its damage output would be allowing it to slow movement speed upon failed Fort save, similar to grease or entangle, but can be bypassed with Freedom of Movement.

The change won't be anything drastic while giving the spell something thematic.

Kenji wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:59 pm Wall of Fire currently has double the damage against undead, whereas its close cousin, Wall of Ice, doesn't have anything except for the frost damage instead of fire damage.

While the frost damage is nice against foes on RDI, Wall of Fire generally outperforms Wall of Ice everywhere else due to the increased damage versus undead.

A way to give Wall of Ice something special without increasing its damage output would be allowing it to slow movement speed upon failed Fort save, similar to grease or entangle, but can be bypassed with Freedom of Movement.

The change won't be anything drastic while giving the spell something thematic.

I like this idea.

Slow on fort save on a STACKABLE high damage AOE spell would be incredibly powerful. Fire has a special interaction against undead, but also a lot more enemies around the module that are resistant or outright immune to fire, whereas Ice has less enemies outright immune to it, and some high level areas where mobs are vulnerable to it.

If you're not fighting undead or enemies weak/strong to either element they are both equally viable. I don't particularly see any reason to make Ice wall the better choice in 90% of situations.

Nitro wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:22 pm Slow on fort save on a STACKABLE high damage AOE spell would be incredibly powerful. Fire has a special interaction against undead, but also a lot more enemies around the module that are resistant or outright immune to fire, whereas Ice has less enemies outright immune to it, and some high level areas where mobs are vulnerable to it.

If you're not fighting undead or enemies weak/strong to either element they are both equally viable. I don't particularly see any reason to make Ice wall the better choice in 90% of situations.

Yeah stackable fort saves would be a problem.

Ice wall being fort based is already better imo in a lot of situations with no evasion, etc.

Wall of Fire and Ice both didn't have any vs ref save for half, anyone who passes through them without SR or enough DR/DI will take damage regardless.

I imagine if it is a scripted slow, then only allow the damage to be stacked, but not the fort save roll where that'd be once per round per character passing through the wall.

We would then have the following spells with a slowing or movement speed reducing effect: reflex-based (Freeze, Grease, Spike Growth, Web), will-based (Slow), saveless (Acid Fog, Cloudkill, Vine Mine) and fortitude-based ((Improved) Chaos Shield, Iceberg, Wall of Ice). I think we already have quite an amount of movement speed-hampering spells. Considering that together with what Nitro said, I'm not for it.

For once I actually agree with the no-change team. I would like to see more spell variants with different elements though. I tried an Auril cleric recently and couldn't cast darkflame because it just wouldn't make sense.

Something Amia did was make a Book of Transmutation you could use to change the energy and elemental types of various spells, was flexible for sorcerers too.

For the actual suggestion here, something like a reflex save would be fine. It's a flavorful addition for the spell and would increase utility for trueflamers, which isn't a terrible thing because having another tool is neat. Also, it doesn't have to halve movement speed, it can be a 20% speed reduction or such. I'm sure there's also a way to make the effect trigger only once per target, just ignoring other rolls of the same effect for the round. I generally think the stacking AoE spells should be made unstackable, laying firewall like traps for stupid mobs to suicide into is a silly strat.

DangerDolphin wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:33 pm For once I actually agree with the no-change team. I would like to see more spell variants with different elements though. I tried an Auril cleric recently and couldn't cast darkflame because it just wouldn't make sense.

-stream wat (if you know the water stream) will change your flame weapon/darkfire elements.

Kuma wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:28 pm

DangerDolphin wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:33 pm For once I actually agree with the no-change team. I would like to see more spell variants with different elements though. I tried an Auril cleric recently and couldn't cast darkflame because it just wouldn't make sense.

-stream wat (if you know the water stream) will change your flame weapon/darkfire elements.

According to spell description:

"The Fire damage type can be changed with Summon Streams: Air, Earth/Ooze and Water."