Arelith

I'm just gonna rant about one of my favorite classes a bit.

We know that their spell list could use some housecleaning.

They could benefit from removing sound burst and replacing it with another spell (or even giving it the ability to scale). As implemented it isn't useful.

The spells with upgrades: Charm Person/Monster & Hold Person/Monster are nice, because it feels like the lock is gaining more power. But at the end of the day, you have duplicate spells taking up space in the spell-book.

Cloud of Bewilderment is only ever useful if you're partied with someone immune to poison. To me, it feels like a worse darkness. If you happen to use it and make the mistake of stepping into it, you're killing yourself. If it could be changed to ignore friendly targets (or even just the user?) Maybe it would be more useful.

I have gripes with Dirge, but maybe it's more useful than I imagine?

Feylocks have access to Summon Shadow and Shadow Shield on their radial menu, so we know that giving them access to spells from other spell-books is entirely possible.

What would really make me happy is if the greater spell focus: illusion buff to invisibility's duration gets completed (and if something similar happens to displacement).

Though, the change would be sort of moot if feylocks didn't also have illusion spells. The only thing I can imagine fitting is color spray (which wizards get as their GSF Illusion spell).

Warlocks in 5e have access to vampiric touch, which scales to 10d6 in NWN.

I'm not sure how powerful it would actually be if the spell did blast damage, but as it stands, it might be fitting as parts of the feylock kit appears to be getting in your face (Displacement and Mage Armor to mitigate damage with Dirge somewhere in there for the close range debuff). Adding it would give them a high damage option and the temporary health could aid with their ability to survive.

I would add something about Bards and ESF, but it's been said before.

At any rate, feel free to give me your insight. I know a lot of you have much more experience than I do with the game.

Two words.

I too wish for some Feylock love.

Irongron has commented specifically that no changes are likely to be made until an update which makes the class independently selected from bard.. That said, perhaps some small changes in the interim could be made? It's definitely a class getting left behind.

A good half of the spells are useless/very unhelpful levelling, such as the charm person/monsters. Cure light wounds is useful perhaps the one or two levels that you get it, then becomes weak to the point of near uselessness imo.

Blind/Deafness is a decent enchantment spells which would be useful on the Feylock - I don't think it matters it is the infini spell of sorc/wiz enchanters (a low popularity focus).

I suggested a pixie summon previously as well, which might be useful for tanking in the early levels. Irongron suggested he liked this idea in that thread, but due to future plans for separating the class it was turned down at that time. This might require more balancing than can be managed right now for the class.

Cure light wounds and it's ilk really need a general scaling buff IMO. The spell and potions start much weaker than healing kits and become ever more useless into higher levels. Which is odd since they are magical and healing kits are presumably just bandages.

While I do agree that feylock need some adjustments to their kits, I am against advocating the removal of sound burst. It is the only reliable way to *snipe* on a feylock, as it has a range of 40 meters.

Szaren wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:14 pm While I do agree that feylock need some adjustments to their kits, I am against advocating the removal of sound burst. It is the only reliable way to *snipe* on a feylock, as it has a range of 40 meters.

See: https://nwn.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_fog

It does full blast damage and has the 40 meter range

Lets try to see it from DEV perspective. Any kind of work takes time. If it's planned, at some point, to become an actual class in nwn then any time you invest in them now will go out of the window, and you dont know how soon. On top of that, any changes can backfire and turn out too strong. In very few cases you buff a class and hit the mark on the first attempt so that requires yet more time invested in balance. I say if the class is at least functional and fun to play, it shouldnt be prioritized for any work.

Honestly I think warlock in general needs to either with new spells they can only take in Bard Spellbook or when the next Beamdog update comes in makes it so new spellcasting classes be added-

That it should be made generic, broken from its "LOL FIENDS" or "LOL FEY" background. Unified, and made so its much easier to balance instead of three poorly optimized or over-tuned paths.

I'd wait 3 more years for this to be the case.

Fiendlock is too good (as long as you choose Abyssal) and Feylock is just good in three specific scenarios and isn't even benefited from gaining many levels. Might as well send them into oblivion and have one class that can be tweaked easily. Let people decide their own obscure background and turn them into something they're like in PnP.

I wish warlocks had more multiclass versatility in terms of a "gish" build, or to splash warlock. My biggest grievance against many paths, etc., is the amount of investment and quasi "pure-classing" it requires. Some fundamentalists will say this is a good thing - me, on the other hand, think smashing three different classes together to come up with something mechanically unique is more rewarding.

Maybe this isn't the intent with warlocks - they do seem rather "ride or die." I don't know if it'd ever be possible, but I wish it could be so.

Same, man.

Feylock dip is fun for PvM at the very least. 12 levels nets infinite displacement and haste. Levelling up you get to places faster with expeditious retreat. Uncanny dodge can be neat. Builds include beauties like Feylock12/BG3/AA15, Feylock12/BG3/Barbarian15, Feylock12/BG3/CoT15. It's funfunfun. You can always argue that "lol just buy wands", but you don't actually ever do that, because you reserve the charges for tougher spawns. Yes, it's meme, but god dammit, 15 years into the game and people still measure their enjoyment in optimisation over silliness, what's wrong with the world.

Heroic Spirit wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:45 pm

Szaren wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:14 pm While I do agree that feylock need some adjustments to their kits, I am against advocating the removal of sound burst. It is the only reliable way to *snipe* on a feylock, as it has a range of 40 meters.

See: https://nwn.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_fog

It does full blast damage and has the 40 meter range

Oh, right. Mindfog. While true, I would loathe to spam that at someone already affected by it. :p

Opustus wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:54 am Feylock dip is fun for PvM at the very least. 12 levels nets infinite displacement and haste. Levelling up you get to places faster with expeditious retreat. Uncanny dodge can be neat. Builds include beauties like Feylock12/BG3/AA15, Feylock12/BG3/Barbarian15, Feylock12/BG3/CoT15. It's funfunfun. You can always argue that "lol just buy wands", but you don't actually ever do that, because you reserve the charges for tougher spawns. Yes, it's meme, but god dammit, 15 years into the game and people still measure their enjoyment in optimisation over silliness, what's wrong with the world.

Well, with the way arcane archers work, it could probably be viable in pvp as well. Perma-haste, displacement, and invisibility could be pretty useful. If I had the proper stat spread, I would consider going one of these routes.

I'll spare you all of most of my wish list but I really think Feylock could use the spell Dominate Animal to complement Dominate Person. I'd really like to see Dominate Monster as the level 28 ability but even Dominate Animal would be a huge quality of life boon without adding significant balance issues.

Szaren wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:01 pm Oh, right. Mindfog. While true, I would loathe to spam that at someone already affected by it. :p

On Arelith, Mind Fog also causes a one-round daze on a failed will save, which makes it incredibly potent to spam.

Nitro wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:39 am

Szaren wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:01 pm Oh, right. Mindfog. While true, I would loathe to spam that at someone already affected by it. :p

On Arelith, Mind Fog also causes a one-round daze on a failed will save, which makes it incredibly potent to spam.

Let's not forget: The one round Daze upon entering a Mind Fog becomes a Stun if the caster has GSF Enchantment. If the caster has ESF Enchantment, the duration is extended to 1d6 rounds.

Nitro wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:39 am

Szaren wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:01 pm Oh, right. Mindfog. While true, I would loathe to spam that at someone already affected by it. :p

On Arelith, Mind Fog also causes a one-round daze on a failed will save, which makes it incredibly potent to spam.

Unless I'm missing something, clouds of the same kind don't stack. So for the GSF: stun to activate, they'd have to be out of the previous cloud.

Which they likely will be, since the times you are shooting a stationary target for longer periods are rare.

I'm confused why the base class for warlocks isn't sorcerer. Sorcerer offers a much wider spell choice for the devs to choose from.

Tarkus the dog wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:46 pm I'm confused why the base class for warlocks isn't sorcerer. Sorcerer offers a much wider spell choice for the devs to choose from.

Warlocks have Discipline(?) and UMD as class skills. Sorcerer has neither. Bard was the closest thing an all-around perfect base class for them.

Darkbolt looks a lot like actual eldritch blast. I do like the idea of shifting to Sorc.

Would need an AB boost then if going to sorc

Tarkus the dog wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:46 pm I'm confused why the base class for warlocks isn't sorcerer. Sorcerer offers a much wider spell choice for the devs to choose from.

Base class aside, we've been shown that Warlocks can have spells from other classes with Shadow Shield and Shadow Conjuration: Summon Shadow via the radial menu.