Arelith

I was worried Naginata was inevitably going to lose ubab, but lowering crit multiplier was a nice moderate approach/touch compared to the drastic pendulum swings of monk last summer.

I guess I'm not sure what warranted the nerf.

Naganita monk wasn't overpowering anything

Shrouded Wanderer wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:09 am I guess I'm not sure what warranted the nerf.

Naganita monk wasn't overpowering anything

7 monk, 7 wm, 16 sd.

Ah. I see. Yes.


Edit:

Oof

AstralUniverse wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:16 am

Shrouded Wanderer wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:09 am I guess I'm not sure what warranted the nerf.

Naganita monk wasn't overpowering anything

7 monk, 7 wm, 16 sd.

The build is 9/7/14 FYI. Very powerful in PvE but so-so in PvP due to its awful AC.

To be great, Naginata required a strength monk, wearing a shirt, and forgoing most AC goodness, high reflex synergy, and deflect arrows. Don't believe the hype. Yes they chew through low AC content, but, as Dr. B has said, they're really underwhelming in PvP. I've played one and against truly good builds, a high skill opponent, or both, they were/are a ticket to lose.

There are scythe variants of the weapon-master/shadow-dancer build mentioned above that, IMO, out-perform even the pre-nerf naginata monk version.

I too question why the change was necessary. I wasn't convinced the katana change needed to happen, but there I can at least see the worry since it synergizes with all the goodness of dex monk. But on str monk? Color me not convinced.

Thankfully few people really capitalized on the weapon's potency, but a 20/x3 weapon in the hands of a build with Monk and Weapon Master quickly became a 16-20/x4 with a damage type on it that could be stacked by other sources, as well as kicking out up to 7 APR while still maintaining decent AC/other stuff.

Because it's piercing damage but the weapon's base damage types are slashing and bludgeoning, any Enhancement Bonus to the weapon (such as Bless Weapon, Blade Thirst, etc.) will grant not just the AB (like happens with most Masterly Damask weapons) but ALSO extra damage.

Is that broken? As a 20/x3, yes. As a 20/x2, it allows you to stack some more damage onto the weapon making it worthwhile in certain settings (such as Paladin 27/Monk 3 or Paladin 23/Fighter 4/Monk 3) which can capitalize on this higher base damage. But not to broken extremes.

That's some Jack Oat wizardry there! I hadn't considered the second and third order effects of the damage-typing, because it wasn't a factor either on my own build or the ones cited in the thread.

Still though, color me convinced. (Though I do wonder why it has two-types in the first place?)

Because, when you fight with a polearm, on occasion you have reason to use the other end to attack, normally to take advantage of an opening that comes after/before a swing, or simply because your opponent might not be expecting it.

In fairness, for this reason spear/halberd should get blunt also, although it might be a little op with the latter.