Arelith

In the game of Neverwinter Nights, Mordenkainen's Sword has been a Transmutation spell. However, through its entire history, it was always an Evocation spell. Should it become an Evocation School Spell, rather than Transmutation? What do you guys think? (Since I know they have switched some spells to their proper counterparts, I was thinking about it).

Iroh wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:32 pm In the game of Neverwinter Nights, Mordenkainen's Sword has been a Transmutation spell. However, through its entire history, it was always an Evocation spell. Should it become an Evocation School Spell, rather than Transmutation? What do you guys think? (Since I know they have switched some spells to their proper counterparts, I was thinking about it).

It should become an evocation spell or should be available in both schools.

Honestly, barely anyone uses it, and people rely on summon monster line instead.

However, the visual might need tweaking:

This spell brings into being a shimmering, swordlike plane of force.
The sword strikes at any opponent within its range, as you desire, starting in the round that you cast the spell.

It does add a summon option for the path of the True Flame, all they get now is Shelgarn's Persistent Blade. Mord's Sword kinda sucks though, I'd love to see it tweaked a bit too. Maybe get rid of its True Seeing and make it a bit more tanky, or boost it based on Spell Focuses, Int mod, or path (True Flame).

Mord's sword works great when faced by magic, when you want to cast a lot of offensive magic like clouds, and can be cast even when summoning is disabled since it is not technically summoned.

But otherwise, it is really is not all that great and quickly loses effectiveness.

Would be great if the spell got Epic Caster Level scaling like other higher-level summoning spells.

Transmutation Evocation argument aside, the spell is far from useless. It is a magic immune true seeing construct that is very useful in certain areas. You can even unlike elementals cast greater magic weapon on it, or flame weapon, or khelben's blackstaff, etc. Elementals have their niche, Mordenkainen's Sword has its: mage killing.

It is also as far as I know boosted by foci in transmutation, and with the right wards and without too much fuss you are able get upwards of 40 ac. It also has a boosted duration to turns per level when for its entire history it has been round based. That is not terrible for a 7th circle spell.

If Mordenkainen's sword seems a bit weak for the situation there is always moving up to ninth circle and trying black blade.

Naiinara wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:29 pm Transmutation Evocation argument aside, the spell is far from useless. It is a magic immune true seeing construct that is very useful in certain areas. You can even unlike elementals cast greater magic weapon on it, or flame weapon, or khelben's blackstaff, etc. Elementals have their niche, Mordenkainen's Sword has its: mage killing.

It is also as far as I know boosted by foci in transmutation, and with the right wards and without too much fuss you are able get upwards of 40 ac. It also has a boosted duration to turns per level when for its entire history it has been round based. That is not terrible for a 7th circle spell.

If Mordenkainen's sword seems a bit weak for the situation there is always moving up to ninth circle and trying black blade.

Black Blade requires a concentration check doesn't it? Black Blade isn't bad but it's hardly a comparison to Mord's Sword. Yea that is the redeeming factor that it is problematic for mages with no AC, but that's about it. I'm actually thinking more in terms of PvE, where I'm watching the sword get dropped in just a few hits by some random minotaur. So for say a sorcerer who can choose 3 level 7 spells would Mord's Sword really be a better alternative to something else? I personally don't think so.

Of course there is no comparison. One is a ninth circle spell and one is seventh. I do not try and use summon monster VII in epic areas. That summon spells are outdone by the next circle is normal.

Unfortunately limited sorcerer spell selection sounds like it is more the issue than mordenkainen's sword. Try a wizard! :p

I wouldnt use mage's sword against minotaur's either...that's more a summon monster spell use. I have used mordenkainens sword in the shadow asylum though. It's good for going in first gaining attention of foes eating spells and dispells, then the rest of the part comes in to flank.

As for black blade I don't think it's a concentration check anymore. It's more powerful than the base nwn version and just ends if you attempt to cast a spell at all. Some things you can do is go invisible before summoning. Go into stealth (even if you have low stealth not everything has crazy good spot). You could also cast darkness in a corner and hide in it. You can cast a few persistent spells before the black blade too. Incendiary cloud acid fog evards etc.

Naiinara wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:52 pmTry a wizard! :p

Part of my argument is more focused on Sorcerer and in particular, the True Flame path as this would be another summon for them since Shelgarn's Persistent Blade. While not bad for a level 1 spell does start to lose effectiveness as well. If it is made an Evocation spell it will be nice to have another summon to grab as True Flame. It's not like you want to go nuts dropping them as much as you would a Shelgarn's since it will cost spell components.

Draco wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:02 pm

Naiinara wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:52 pmTry a wizard! :p

Part of my argument is more focused on Sorcerer and in particular, the True Flame path as this would be another summon for them since Shelgarn's Persistent Blade. While not bad for a level 1 spell does start to lose effectiveness as well. If it is made an Evocation spell it will be nice to have another summon to grab as True Flame. It's not like you want to go nuts dropping them as much as you would a Shelgarn's since it will cost spell components.

Yep, I'd love to have access to that on a TF character. Dont' care if it has truesight or not. Just an upgrade from the floaty dagger would be nice. I

I was not expecting the turn out this thread got or the discussion on the usefulness of the spell. I am happy to see many people agree on the Evocation path. Now, when I made this, I wasn't thinking of True Flames. However, I guess we can also see this as a benefit to them (however minor).

Personally, I was thinking since the history it was always Evocation, why not make it evocation? While I've read the spell focuses, and I believe people take transmutation for portals/teleport or maybe even DC for Flesh to Stone spell.

Evocation makes more sense to me, because not only do more people likely take Evocation (but it might make a nearly unused spell, used. Even if only by True Flames).

As mentioned, many people rely more on the Summon Creature/Planar/Gate spells, than the Sword or even the Disaster blade (that I have seen).

That said, I cannot speak for the efficiency or power of the spell in question (as I know nothing of numbers), but I'm sure that could be tweaked if necessary.

Given how much it will modify TF, I can't see this changing from where it is now.

Xerah wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:22 am Given how much it will modify TF, I can't see this changing from where it is now.

TF are already using persistent blade for the same effect and can't buff.

There was also a recent change to darkness spell which affected TFs.

And we have fiendlocks running around with infinite summons and ability to buff them.

Void wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:45 am

Xerah wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:22 am Given how much it will modify TF, I can't see this changing from where it is now.

TF are already using persistent blade for the same effect and can't buff.

There was also a recent change to darkness spell which affected TFs.

And we have fiendlocks running around with infinite summons and ability to buff them.

Fiendlocks cannot clear entire screens in a few rounds.

Edit: Complete rewrite. Bookmarked this at work, posted from, home, everything originally said was already said and didn't notice it.

I love Mordenkainen's sword as-is. I'll never knock a by-the-book turn for magic, but I will agree that while it would be nice, True Flames don't really need this. They can't buff it like a wizard though, so it'd lose a good chunk of staying power past the mid-teens.

Wouldn't be awful... but I can see the argument against it. *shrug*