Arelith

With FS getting 4 + int, any chance poor clerics could get the same? *bats eyelashes* lol

Arelith needs more skill monkeys!

4+ should be the minimum across all classes, honestly.

That could create some balance issues, with everyone taking skills like spot/listen, spellcraft and taunt.

a shrouded figure wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:21 pm With FS getting 4 + int, any chance poor clerics could get the same? *bats eyelashes* lol

Know what they don't get though? Domains

Increasing SP's just lends power creep disproportionately to low skill point classes.

(Look at ranger, certainly never needed an extra 2 SP's)

Nothing needs it. Take more int.

But how does this nerf clerics?

I’m just looking at my human cleric with 16 int and going what the heck...

Disc
Conc
Spell
Heal
Lore
Tumble

That’s a fairly obnoxious investment. Considering a human FS can do the same thing with 12 int... So either clerics are 6 starting stat points better than FS’s, or skill points are NOT the crazy op balance issue that some people seem to think they are.... or FS are super OP and need to be nerfed! Lol.

*shrugs* I think all the classes could use a little skill point love personally... but I do like my skills. All of my characters seem to end up being super geniuses haha.

So favoured soul should get less skill points is how im reading this.

Such a good idea. While we're at it, give rogues spellbooks, they deserve Time Stop.

Drowboy wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:26 pm 4+ should be the minimum across all classes, honestly.

Would be best not to increase number of skill points unnecessarily.

Might-N-Magic wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:43 am Such a good idea. While we're at it, give rogues spellbooks, they deserve Time Stop.

Wish 1/day. Only for rogues, at level 1, and only if chaotic evil.

disagree w/ giving clerics more skills

you also don't need heal on a cleric

Why did Favored Soul get 4 + int? In PnP it's 2 + int.

https://dndtools.net/classes/favored-soul/

MissEvelyn wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:50 am Why did Favored Soul get 4 + int? In PnP it's 2 + int.

https://dndtools.net/classes/favored-soul/

Yep. They should get 2+int. Combat class and all.

Clerics are already among -the- most powerful classes, no need to give further cookies.

I see no problem at all with having some low SP classes, to ensure not everyone can take all the useful skills. Increasing all classes to 4 would just be a power creep. All in for reducing FS to 2.

Cataclysm of Iron wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:08 pm But how does this nerf clerics?

Qft

Quidix wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:37 am Clerics are already among -the- most powerful classes, no need to give further cookies.

I see no problem at all with having some low SP classes, to ensure not everyone can take all the useful skills. Increasing all classes to 4 would just be a power creep. All in for reducing FS to 2.

Can always give FS wings as consolation instead.

Given the choice between death domain harm and 4 skill points/level I'd take death domain harm.

Clerics don't need their skill points buffed and you can't just compare one aspect of two classes in a vacuum to support a balance argument.

I kinda like that FS gets more skill points and 3 primary saves. Please dont make clerics and FS more of the same. Clerics get haste in their spellbook, domains, and can benefit from divine feats. And as others have said, giving more classes high skills scaling would just screw up the entire skills economy. Suddenly everyone will have taunt and super high detection.

Death domain, harm. Spellsword magic breach on hit. Sorcerer mord spam.

Out played and out skilled. What more could a cleric ask for?

Just curious... every cleric I talk to is a traveling trickster. Where are all these clerics of traveling death?

a shrouded figure wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:29 pm Just curious... every cleric I talk to is a traveling trickster. Where are all these clerics of traveling death?

When it comes to builds on Arelith there's a lot of misinformation and outdated info being tossed around, and so you end up with a bunch if trickery 23 CL clerics.

Cataclysm of Iron wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:08 pm But how does this nerf clerics?

Oh damn. This boy uses my moto.

I like.

Void wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:09 am

Quidix wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:37 am Clerics are already among -the- most powerful classes, no need to give further cookies.

I see no problem at all with having some low SP classes, to ensure not everyone can take all the useful skills. Increasing all classes to 4 would just be a power creep. All in for reducing FS to 2.

Can always give FS wings as consolation instead.

They do get wings as well as only 2+int skill points in PnP. Obviously our game doesn't allow for flying, so some movement speed and tumble bonus could be added to the wings instead.

To be a total smartarse and to defend the OP against smartarse "how this nerf" comments (and as an aside: nobody ever claimed that this nerfed clerics, people just hopped on the bandwagon, so I'm defending a ghost):

If we understand the meaning of "nerf" and "buff" not as absolute values of the class but as relative values of meta-builds with class as its component, then the better alternative is actually a nerf to the original. When the lore change came, the build pundits said that it nerfed melee and buffed casters, because it shifted the relation of the builds. Card games like Hearthstone evaluate meta according to the performance and frequency data of decks from competetitive ladders: when new cards powercreep old ones, the meta shifts, nerfing some decks into disuse whose card stats are actually unaffected by the change. The new better alternative therefore nerfs the original one.

So if, hypothetically, FS powercreeped Cleric as a stronger alternative, then the OP would be within her rights to call it a nerf to Cleric insofar as we define "nerf" as a relative matter than an absolute one. Suckers.

I'm sorry. I cant see one GOOD argument in this thread on why clerics should have more skill points. Because saying they deserve more skill points because FS has more skill points is a terrible argument that doesnt take one million other factors into consideration. clerics are still top 3 strongest classes in this game, pure or multi-classed. Skill points arent the reason they are strong so giving them those on top of that is just a bad idea.