Arelith

Dalenger wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:00 pm A cap like this would be absurdly OP... a DC-built caster now has a 50% chance of beating you every round they get to cast a spell. I'm personally not a fan of save-or-die spells, and am much more in favor of save-less spells that offer a more likely but much less powerful debuff (such as what happened with Fear).

three wolf moon wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:05 pm please stop

Seven Sons of Sin wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:20 pm Is this to be less reliant on IGMS? Is the 36 cap meaning universal save cap, or specific? Can I have 35 Fort and +6 versus spells, or does that cap out to 36? If so, suddenly Spellcraft takes a nose dive (right?) because now you might not need to make it out to reach your 36 cap. Suddenly div builds are everything. You'll see more things that try to gimp casters right out of the gate and never give them a chance.

I dunno. We gotta give things a little bit of time. Look at the original Timestop suggestion - it was made 1 day after the Lore/UMD changes, and now 6 months later we're feeling the results of not getting a proper assessment of how mechanics have shuffled around.

I also am in favour for simplifying/streamlining mechanics more than creating new obtuse rules that make things more difficult to navigate and navigate.

Drowboy wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:58 pm Not particularly.

If the way to 'fix' mages is to blanket nerf the entire server, maybe they don't need fixing. Also a 50/50 shot at failing any save this hypothetical DC wizard throws at you means you die. You know that.

This doesnt contribute at all. I'll say "No" and leave it to that.

Scurvy Cur wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:24 pm

Drowboy wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:58 pm Not particularly.

If the way to 'fix' mages is to blanket nerf the entire server, maybe they don't need fixing. Also a 50/50 shot at failing any save this hypothetical DC wizard throws at you means you die. You know that.

Largely I agree with the above sentiment, or at least I agree to the extent that this strikes me as a knee-jerk and oddly specific nerf.

I had an essay ready to post, but I'll nutshell it. The tl;dr is that in an era of 0CL immunity buffs, saving throws are important to surviving any contact with casters, regardless of whether timestop is a thing. This is part of why mages have a broad spellbook full of things that are effective or partially effective even when a saving throw is made, and why focusing only in high-risk, high-reward spellcasting is a limiting choice. There should not be a move to cap saves across the board to make playing a WoB-spamming necrobot somewhat more attractive.

This doesnt contribute at all. I'll say "No" and leave it to that.

I mean, really neither does your suggestion, but a lot of people here have done you the courtesy of explaining why the idea is a bad one. I think it's a case of pearls before swine, but they're being exceptionally nice about it. Kudos to them.

Xerah wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:19 pm This isn't really an actionable suggestion. This thread can be locked.

Wuthering wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:36 pm I think the inherent flaw in NWN is that D&D is a game about partying up to fight monsters. Spells are designed to clear rooms of a dungeon and disable bosses so the melee can whack them down, not to go toe-to-toe against PCs of equivalent level. It's very difficult to balance PVP against spells that require a save when so many of those spells either kill you outright or make you immobile for rounds-per-level which may as well be a death sentence in most cases.

If something is to change I think *many* spells ought to be reworked so they have a higher chance of succeeding (or still have some effect on a failed save) but don't kill the target immediately or take them out of commission for more than a few rounds. Which is in a very generalized sense how spellcasting works in many games designed around PVP first. That's a massive undertaking though and the resulting forum war would kill us all.