Page 1 of 1
Harvesting implements
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 5:55 pm
by Frailman
Mining Pickaxe, Logging Axe, Gem Mining Hammer are for some reason all Martial Proficiency.
This doesn't make a lot of sense to me and ends up meaning low strength non-martial classes can't use them very efficiently as the nodes seem to have 0 AC or so, and your AB ends up lower than 0 on a few attacks. It doesn't seem like a Martial thing to mine ore or chop trees.
Furthermore they don't seem to work at all. The Resources page on the wiki claims they add a flat +25 dmg (not seen in the log) to nodes of the correct type. I tried using a self-crafterd Gem Mining Hammer on a Greenstone Mineral Deposit. Over 100 hits with no Greenstone nor mined out node.
Re: Harvesting implements
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 6:16 pm
by Skarain
Right. To start with, yes, they could all be moved under Simple weapons category somehow. I think the current weapons were used since they 'look' actually like a hammer, a pickaxe and logging axe - as close as we get.
In terms of gem hammers, get 2x of them. Dual-wield away at that gem done, as long as your AB stays above +1. Put some enchantment + permanent essence (+ temporary essence, if aiming to do lots of gem-mining) and the tools will eat through the gem node in reasonable time.
Even just one +4 permanent essence makes miracles for a gem hammer. However, it 'would' be nice if one didn't have to go through that hurdle to feel like a competent gem-hunter.
Re: Harvesting implements
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 7:08 pm
by Frailman
Skarain wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 6:16 pm
Right. To start with, yes, they could all be moved under Simple weapons category somehow. I think the current weapons were used since they 'look' actually like a hammer, a pickaxe and logging axe - as close as we get.
In terms of gem hammers, get 2x of them. Dual-wield away at that gem done, as long as your AB stays above +1. Put some enchantment + permanent essence (+ temporary essence, if aiming to do lots of gem-mining) and the tools will eat through the gem node in reasonable time.
Even just one +4 permanent essence makes miracles for a gem hammer. However, it 'would' be nice if one didn't have to go through that hurdle to feel like a competent gem-hunter.
Sounds like the +25 damage does indeed not work. Does the increased chance of gaining gems work or is it just another hammer right now?
Re: Harvesting implements
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 8:32 pm
by Skarain
Frailman wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 7:08 pm
Skarain wrote: Wed May 13, 2020 6:16 pm
Right. To start with, yes, they could all be moved under Simple weapons category somehow. I think the current weapons were used since they 'look' actually like a hammer, a pickaxe and logging axe - as close as we get.
In terms of gem hammers, get 2x of them. Dual-wield away at that gem done, as long as your AB stays above +1. Put some enchantment + permanent essence (+ temporary essence, if aiming to do lots of gem-mining) and the tools will eat through the gem node in reasonable time.
Even just one +4 permanent essence makes miracles for a gem hammer. However, it 'would' be nice if one didn't have to go through that hurdle to feel like a competent gem-hunter.
Sounds like the +25 damage does indeed not work. Does the increased chance of gaining gems work or is it just another hammer right now?
It still triggers the script that "this tool allows you to harvest materials more effectively". Keep in mind only Fire, Frost and Acid work with resource nodes though.
Unsure if the +25 damage works or not, or if all damage is eaten by the ore vein's DR. I know that elemental enchantment does make it faster. As does dual wielding. Twice the hits in.
Re: Harvesting implements
Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 5:02 pm
by Skarain
Double-posting is bad, i know, but I did more testing.
All the harvesting tools: Mining Pickaxe, Logging Axe and Gem Hammer are working as intended, and do account the +25 invisible bonus damage. SOME individual resource nodes out there may not recognize the script: Report them as you come across any. But a vast majority seems to work.
HOWEVER, Gem Hammer is a special case here.
Mineral Deposit (Gemstone) have a 7/- Damage Reduction or somesuch. For the Gem Hammer +25 damage script to trigger, you NEED to deal at least 1 points of damage that is NOT absorbed by the Physical Damage Reduction.
This means, enchanting your Gem Hammer with 1d4 Acid damage at a basin, a permanent essence of a temporary essence.
When you deal even 1 elemental damage (that bypasses the DR), the Gem Hammer works as intended, applies the +25 damage and you cut through gem veins like a hot knife through butter.
Further enchantments always speed things up. Best i've managed to squeeze into an harvesting implement is:
-20% weight
-1d4 acid
-+1 STR (soft 5%)
-permanent +4 cold essence
+ temporary 1d6 (or 1d8) fire essence
EDIT: removed 1d4 massive critical. Went into hard 5% territory.
----
Some of the tools being Martal weapons is an entirely different beast. After doing some math, I do not find it necessary.
Get a separate set of STR gear and you should be able to push the AB above negative even at a relatively low level. +12 STR is +6 AB, and the disadvantage for using is -8 AB at most. -10 AB if dual-wielding.
Even with a STR 6 character (max +4 from STR) and with 1/2 BAB progression (Wizard/Sorcerer), your BAB will be +5 at level 10. That means that you will miss only with a natural 1, as resource nodes have no AC whatsoever.
Re: Harvesting implements
Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 9:28 pm
by Frailman
Oh alright, some damage required to trigger the 25dmg. Nice testing dude
Now as for martial , true, you could do it with STR gear, but honestly it's a bit of a pain to reassign your spell slots because of gear switching at gem nodes. So while it's doable it doesn't seem like the intended behavior or demands for using a gem-cutting hammer.
AB-wise, at level 10 with 5 BAB -8 proficiency gives you a decent chance to fail. Later on it's milder as BAB progresses, but your second, third or dual wielded attacks suffer even greater loss.
I'd go as far as to wager that neither the DR removing the hidden 25 damage, nor the martial proficiency on the implements were intended behavior or explicit design choices.