Arelith

The price seems rather steep at 9,600 for one bottle. And I just found out one bottle is enough for a single message.

I'd love to either make this 1) a reasonable price [eg 500], or 2) make it a craftable.

Its the equivalent of an Epic Spell Focus feat that supplements for the Speedy Messenger everyone has access to, is 9,600 really that much?

Well, it's a Greater Spell Focus just to get the facts clear. It is not an epic spell.

Beyond that, for comparison, teleport lenses (the 'equivalent' in transmutation) costs 2,900. A lot cheaper than 9,600. I'd also imagine sending a message is also easier than teleporting the whole body somewhere?

I suppose I'm somewhat frustrated how mundane classes don't have any cool RP features, but casters have a lot.

It'd be strange for all the characters in a FR-lite setting to have easily available magical smartphones. I think the price is supposed to ensure that's not the case here.

They should cost somewhere around portal lenses, be as accessible as portal lenses and around the same difficulty of a crafting recipe as portal lenses. The means to send a quick message without access to a speedy should be treated the same way as travelling without a portal source.

Given how often speedies are thrown across the server to mobilize massive forces to attend benign DM events or fight against half a handful of one's enemies, often to the detriment of all fun, I say keep wisps expensive.

Then again, maybe it doesn't matter because so many people just use discord to coordinate that stuff anyhow. So maybe there's an argument to be made that if wisps are more accessible, instances of OOC coordination will be less frequent. Can't say for certain.

-XXX- wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:12 am It'd be strange for all the characters in a FR-lite setting to have easily available magical smartphones. I think the price is supposed to ensure that's not the case here.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Sending_stones

I agree that 9600 seems a bit much. Something still in the thousands would be fine, like portal lenses that were mentioned, or perhaps a bit more. It also makes sense, since often enough using a portal lense can achieve almost the same effect of a wisp bottle.

Quidix wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:09 am Well, it's a Greater Spell Focus just to get the facts clear. It is not an epic spell.

I genuinely learned something, checked the wiki and saw the minimum level requirement was 21 so I always assumed since you needed to BE epic to cast it it was based on the epic spell focus but I just took it early.

From the beginning the wisp bottles were intended to be expensive. When I worked on the item and the scripting the initial cost was agreed to be set to 25k. Later this was reduced a bit. The idea was to provide an alternative way of sending messages without reducing the importance of the speedy messenger service or epic level illusionists.

Artenides wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:04 pm From the beginning the wisp bottles were intended to be expensive. When I worked on the item and the scripting the initial cost was agreed to be set to 25k. Later this was reduced a bit. The idea was to provide an alternative way of sending messages without reducing the importance of the speedy messenger service or epic level illusionists.

How is that any different than portal lenses in regards to transmutation and portal sources? Shouldnt then portal lenses cost 9k and be uncraftable?

Because lenses are not just for ic convenience, they are a huge boon for when something happens ooc that you can't help or avoid. Being able to portal out of whatever dangerous place you may be so you can log out safely is a large bonus. Everyone at some point has needed to abruptly log out. I personally would hate to not have the ability to get a lens at a low lvl. It would essentially mean not leaving the city area till somehow gaining enough while in a safe zone to by a 10k lens.

Sending IC messages through the void is one of the strongest powers in the game - stronger than teleportation, because teleportation is one person directly, that single message could get an army, or whatever else you need. That it exists is powerful enough to justify any cost when it becomes necessary to use.

TimeAdept wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:24 am Sending IC messages through the void is one of the strongest powers in the game - stronger than teleportation, because teleportation is one person directly, that single message could get an army, or whatever else you need. That it exists is powerful enough to justify any cost when it becomes necessary to use.

Wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment, HOWEVER- I think magistrasa is on to something tangentially related here.

If we presume that ooc discord coordination will happen, lowering the cost of these:

1: May de-incentivize ooc coordination (not likely in most cases, but I can see fringe cases where people would rather not bother with discord if a similar ic means is less prohibitively expensive. )
2: Level the playing field for those who don't do this. (Much more likely. )

Admittedly, I'm not a big fan of the second reasoning, because it assumes a precedent for altering mechanics rather than punishing offenders; however, in this case it's an offense so hard to prove happened that for the sake of this conversation we're already assuming it's happening and people are getting away with it, even from a staff member's perspective, so....

Maybe make it like lenses?

TimeAdept wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:24 am Sending IC messages through the void is one of the strongest powers in the game - stronger than teleportation, because teleportation is one person directly, that single message could get an army, or whatever else you need.

TBF, saying sending messages is stronger than teleportation, how's the army going to get to where it needs be in time to be relevant?

Plus, you can just as easily send a message by teleporting to the same place you're sending a message to or to a town and then a speedy.

Information flow is one of the most important thing to have, during a clutch situation, a military action, etc ... Often each group requires an illusionist with them to send and receive messages back and forth from the different distant groups and coordinate. Such changes a lot, It's definitely a boon to be able to send messages on the fly (and without a cooldown I believe in case of the wisp). For just the advantage it brings I actually find 9600 to be a relatively cheap price for it, considering what it does.

And people say that you can go to a town to send a message, yes but also, no. It depends on the situation and I can guarantee you, that wisp bottles are powerful. An easy situation that comes to mind, is a stealther that stalks a group of enemies, and continuously sends informations about where they are, what they're doing, what their numbers are, which routes they're taking etc... To have to go into town to send a message would mean losing visual of the enemies, but to do so in the heat of the moment is a huge, huge advantage.

I would actually prefer their price /increased/.

I hadn't actually considered the 'big warfare' implications, and that's a good point. Overall, maybe it should be left as is then.

Personally, I had been thinking more about convenience situations like: someone drops you a messenger that they want to meet up as soon as possible, but you're in the middle of something - your choices are basically 1) drop current RP [bad idea], 2) continue current RP without any notification to them [acceptable, but rude to the actual player that may be waiting], 3) continue current RP but give a OOC tell hint that will be a while [bad idea as relies of OOC communication].

Definately Not A Mimic wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:29 am Because lenses are not just for ic convenience, they are a huge boon for when something happens ooc that you can't help or avoid. Being able to portal out of whatever dangerous place you may be so you can log out safely is a large bonus. Everyone at some point has needed to abruptly log out. I personally would hate to not have the ability to get a lens at a low lvl. It would essentially mean not leaving the city area till somehow gaining enough while in a safe zone to by a 10k lens.

TimeAdept wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:24 am Sending IC messages through the void is one of the strongest powers in the game - stronger than teleportation, because teleportation is one person directly, that single message could get an army, or whatever else you need. That it exists is powerful enough to justify any cost when it becomes necessary to use.

Yeah I dont really want lenses to cost 10k, just for the record. I just see both portals in generals and speedies as aspects of the game which shouldnt exist at all 'in a perfect world' but they exist to make the game much more fun and time efficient (aka spending your time online RPing rather than wandering alone looking for people, or being able to suddenly log not in the middle of a dungeon) so I put them in the same boat. But both these arguments above are convincing and I'm kinda convinced. They're really far from the same aspect.

Only issue i see with it is you can only seem to get them in one specific place and said place is not exactly safe for good aligned characters to go to. Might want to have them sold in more benign locations so everyone can access them.

Exordius wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:33 pm Only issue i see with it is you can only seem to get them in one specific place and said place is not exactly safe for good aligned characters to go to. Might want to have them sold in more benign locations so everyone can access them.

I mean, the specific area they're in has a 2-way portal and a strict no violence rule, so theoretically it's one of the safest places around.

Exordius wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:33 pm Only issue i see with it is you can only seem to get them in one specific place and said place is not exactly safe for good aligned characters to go to. Might want to have them sold in more benign locations so everyone can access them.

This have troubled me as well. It is in a sense ''safe'', but it is a dubious place, and a dubious merchant for good guys to traffic with; same for myriad neutrals out there. You can make only so many excuses to throw money around in either place.

Good/neutrals should be able to get their Wisp Bottles from elsewhere, than from current two locations that are generally Not Okay. A location such as Radiant Heart would not raise many brows, considering already available services rendered there.

I don't mind the price.

But it needs a "civilized area option" that isn't Sibayad or the Shadow Plane.

Probably should be craftable as well.

It's in the UNJUSTIFIABLE zone for anyone of sentience and good alignment.

Perhaps if it's made craftable have it something Epic Illusion peeps can do?
Bottle a message wisp and make it cost something similar to the buyable ones.

Archon wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:35 pm

Exordius wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:33 pm Only issue i see with it is you can only seem to get them in one specific place and said place is not exactly safe for good aligned characters to go to. Might want to have them sold in more benign locations so everyone can access them.

This have troubled me as well. It is in a sense ''safe'', but it is a dubious place, and a dubious merchant for good guys to traffic with; same for myriad neutrals out there. You can make only so many excuses to throw money around in either place.

Good/neutrals should be able to get their Wisp Bottles from elsewhere, than from current two locations that are generally Not Okay. A location such as Radiant Heart would not raise many brows, considering already available services rendered there.

Taking this in perspective...

You are literally bottling and containing a Whisp, a fully sentient creature, specifically for use as a magical messenger pidgeon.

Its something that isn't inherently good, and thus, its location within the game and its price are rather justified from an ethical standpoint.

easily solved by renaming it as grug jug.

evil people can still have their evil alternative.

good people can have happy canned messenger.